Author Topic: Apollo 15 Flag movement  (Read 26862 times)

Offline bknight

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Apollo 15 Flag movement
« on: October 04, 2015, 10:04:25 PM »
Since we are in the midst of spatial recognition and Apollo 15 landing area from lunar orbit I thought I'd post a video I ran onto a week or so ago.
It concerns flag movement during Apollo 15 as Dave Scott passes between the flag and camera on the rover around 2:35.  I have my explanation but was curious what the rest of the forum thinks
What caused the flag movement?

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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2015, 10:53:14 PM »
There have been several proposals, but the one I favor is that Scott is actually closer to the flag than it first seems and actually brushed it.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2015, 11:06:15 PM »
That is/was my guess the camera is using a wide angle lens setting and he is much closer to the flag than he appears, very likely brushing it with his left arm/hand.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline raven

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 11:46:23 PM »
I really don't like Shane here's insulting language, but his presentation and analysis is sound to the best of my knowledge.
I am fond of the electrostatic theory induced by UV radiation, but both are possible with how close he was. One thing is for sure, it ain't air, as the flag would have stopped moving far sooner in air, and the dust kicked up would be moving quite differently.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 12:01:49 AM »
I really don't like Shane here's insulting language, but his presentation and analysis is sound to the best of my knowledge.
I am fond of the electrostatic theory induced by UV radiation, but both are possible with how close he was. One thing is for sure, it ain't air, as the flag would have stopped moving far sooner in air, and the dust kicked up would be moving quite differently.
Nice video I was told that I had spatial issues when I  commented he was close enough to touch the flag. The 3d was a great idea. I hadn't considered the electrostatic theory.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2015, 01:41:56 AM »
I've always wondered if it was a simple matter of vibration from the footsteps..

Offline Gazpar

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 05:50:14 AM »
I've always wondered if it was a simple matter of vibration from the footsteps..
But you can see the astronaut walking besides the flag when he salutes for the photos and the flag does not move.

Offline gwiz

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 06:10:09 AM »
Another possibility is that he kicked some soil against the flagpole.
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Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 06:16:00 AM »
I have to do this from memory as I don't have the bandwidth to view the video until I'm home on Wednesday, but as I recall isn't the first movement of the flag towards the astronaut? This would seem to favour brushing against it or static!
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 07:33:45 AM »
Oh, if ONLY the astronauts had thought to hang some reference-object, such as a 3'X5' piece of nylon (ideally one that's subdivided by high-contrast parallel stripes) in the frame at the same distance as the flag.  Then we could have measured the difference in size of the near and far edges and calculated how far it was from the camera.

Of course, if I was going to wish for that, I might as well wish for the astronaut to carry some rectangular object of known dimensions (on his back, say) so that we could calculate his distance from the camera, too.

But that would just be silly.

Oh well...
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Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 07:48:05 AM »
I've always wondered if it was a simple matter of vibration from the footsteps..
But you can see the astronaut walking besides the flag when he salutes for the photos and the flag does not move.
That is a good point that I attempted to present, but that was quickly brushed aside by the rather poorly informed poster.  Another good point is that his body blocks from view what his left arm/hand are doing, so that one can not conclusively say that it didn't touch the flag or be effected by electrostatic charge.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 07:53:00 AM »
I have to do this from memory as I don't have the bandwidth to view the video until I'm home on Wednesday, but as I recall isn't the first movement of the flag towards the astronaut? This would seem to favour brushing against it or static!
I had to watch again, when the body clears the flag it appears that the flag may be toward the end of its arc away from Dave, just as I would expect from a brush or the electrostatic effect.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline frenat

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 09:19:23 AM »
This is one of Rocky/DavidC/Cosmored's favorite clips.  IIRC Jarrah White supposedly proved the astronaut was close enough to touch it.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 09:21:45 AM »
This is one of Rocky/DavidC/Cosmored's favorite clips.  IIRC Jarrah White supposedly proved the astronaut was close enough to touch it.
Gwak, the blunder dis-proved a HB proposition?  I quit watching his videos after watching the Apollo 1 fire, so that may be the case.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline frenat

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Re: Apollo 15 Flag movement
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 09:26:32 AM »
This is one of Rocky/DavidC/Cosmored's favorite clips.  IIRC Jarrah White supposedly proved the astronaut was close enough to touch it.
Gwak, the blunder dis-proved a HB proposition?  I quit watching his videos after watching the Apollo 1 fire, so that may be the case.
I haven't watched it myself but that's the story supposedly.  I've heard that in the next breath after he says they could have been close enough he makes up some reason why they weren't.
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.