ApolloHoax.net

Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: DAKDAK on May 16, 2012, 06:29:16 AM

Title: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: DAKDAK on May 16, 2012, 06:29:16 AM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense. I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.
1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!
2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON
7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

 I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space. I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.
Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!
You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

[Post restored by LunarOrbit]
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Laurel on May 16, 2012, 06:38:06 AM
I am truly not trying to offend anybody...
Do you really expect us to believe that when you ignore people's questions and choose instead to rant, scream and troll? If you aren't willing to believe what anyone tells you, why did you come here in the first place? Just to tell people they should believe an uneducated troll instead of the experts? Yeah, good luck with that.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gwiz on May 16, 2012, 06:55:54 AM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.
.
.
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You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!
Some of us have indeed carried out some of the experiments you mention, and with a little equipment anyone could repeat any of the others except actually going to the moon, which requires real money.  Number 5 is confirmed every time anyone uses a Satnav, which involves Newton, Einstein and the speed of light being correct to work.  That's what makes science the only method to reach the truth about the world - the testing of every theory against measurements.  You do not get to the truth by blindly believing something someone wrote thousands of years ago.  If your common sense tells you any different, it may be common but it is not sensible.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 16, 2012, 07:05:45 AM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

When common sense is enough to cultivate an understanding of the world around you, we'll give you a call.

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I am truly not trying to offend anybody,

Bull. You have no idea how we acquired the knowledge we have, and you blithely assume it is just from book learning. Many of the people here have practical experience of the things we are talking about.

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1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

Irrelevant.

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2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

Don't I? Is everything ever published on the subject fake then, from all the nations who have ever sent probes to the Moon?

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3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

Yes I do. The reflecting/emitting light part is obvious.

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4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.

Actually I have.

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5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

Actually I have. Newton's laws of gravity I tested in school. Einstein's relativity and the speed of light I have not measured myself but I have seen them being measured in ways that I know work. A satnav is one such example.

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6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON

Yes I do.

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7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

So? You wouldn't even know how to.

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8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH

Have you actually seen a command module? Have you seen inside one? I have. It was big enough.

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OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Wrong.

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Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

Absolute utter crap. I have practical experience of some of the things you dismiss, and several people here do those sorts of things for a living. Don't you dare sit there claiming equal knowledge to people who actually work in the aerospace industry.

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I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade

So tell me, how exactly did you obtain the critical skills necessary to understand the world around you and the technical side of things that you presume to discuss here?

Let me tell you something about me. I'm a biochemist. I work routinely with things I cannot see directly. I know they work, however, because I have spent years learning the technical aspects of my job, and now I am paid to apply that knowledge. Would you tell me everything I am doing is bunk because it doesn't fit with your common sense and observations you can make from home? Because it involves a lot of education in some highly detailed and often counter-intuitive stuff? And yet, despite all this, the people who work in my field have developed things you take for granted, and they work, even though from your very limited perspective you couldn't even begin to understand how they work or how we acquired the knowledge to allow us to make these things and test their effectiveness.

Who do you think you are to tell us we don't know the details of Apollo and lunar science any more than you do?

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and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space.

So what do you believe and why do you believe everything else is wrong?

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I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

And you lack the framework to properly interpret those observations.

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Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

With your total lack of technical skills and knowledge, you will have a very hard time doing so.

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You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

Irrelevant.

Didn't take long for your inability to discuss issues on an equal footing with people here led to the usual hoax believer meltdown, did it?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gwiz on May 16, 2012, 07:12:38 AM
Don't I? Is everything ever published on the subject fake then, from all the nations who have ever sent probes to the Moon?
The list of such nations is: Russia, USA, Japan, China, India and the 19 that make up the European Space Agency.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ChrLz on May 16, 2012, 08:32:06 AM
Goodness.  Does this subject really upset you so much, dak?  Perhaps you should have a lie down.  Or do you just like the idea of *another* thread on the topic?  Aren't the others going quite well enough?  Anyway, I shall assume this isn't a troll (despite thinking otherwise) and respond to few issues and your list..  Normally I wouldn't discuss lack of education, but seeing you brought it up...

(BTW, please don't SHOUT.  It just looks silly, and makes text less comfortable to read.  Educated people don't do that :) )

1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!
You got ONE correct!  Umm... what is your point?

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2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.
Yes I do. Can I suggest you bravely look up next time you see the moon at night?  Or do you not get out much?

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3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS
What is 'tempature?'  If you mean temperature, it is actually pretty easy to work out what the temperature of a known object or material would be, after a given time on the Moon, given latitude/sun angle on object as applicable.  But that is all a bit offtopic really, and .. well.. you should have educated yourself on that before bringing *another* wrong claim here.  (And may I suggest you also learn the difference between heat and temperature, as that becomes very important when you are considering something in a vacuum...  You wouldn't want to post more wrong stuff, now would you?)

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OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
That's actually pretty easy to determine, by using a simple camera and a bit of logic..  Again, if you were more educated on these topics, you would know how, and I have no intention of wasting my time on someone who says they don't need education, just 'common sense'.

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4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
Yes, I have.  And although my method was a bit crude, it seems to agree pretty well with published results (eg the ones using lasers bounced off the reflector left there by the Apollo heroes..).  So, you really can't think of a way you could measure the distance?  It uses some very basic concepts and a little bit of very simple maths..  A 9th grader should be able to understand that.

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5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT
No, but being educated I understand how it can be measured.  Dak, did you know that Ole Roemer (sp?) is generally credited to have been the first to measure the speed of light, in 1676.  Yep, 1676.  You would have learnt about that either in Science or History lessons .. in those later schoolyears you missed.

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OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”
My education allows me to understand the inescapable logic of the relativity concept, and every time I turn on my GPS, there it is in action...

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OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
Now you must surely be joking.  Every moment of every day you and I and everyone and everything obey those laws down to miniscule accuracy.  And that accuracy only starts to show a problem at relativistic speeds and/or huge masses - hence Einstein's brilliant refinements.

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6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON
Yes, I do.  But you shouldn't ask someone about their weight, or for that matter (geddit?) their mass..

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7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.
Nah, but I did a bit of ballistics stuff back some years - it's the same concepts..  Bob B does a fine job of that on his pages (http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm).  I'm guessing you never followed any links to that - for fear of being educated?

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8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH
Yes, I do and it was.
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OR IF THE ROCKETS,
Yes, I do and they were.
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LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER
Yes, I do and it was.
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SYSYTEM {sic} COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY
Yes, I do and it was.
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SPACESUITS
Yes, I do and they were.
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AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
Yes, I do and they were.  I use very similar tools today, and I know enough about all of those other things to be able to look at specifications, schematics, pictures, descriptions, blueprints and other evidence to satisfy myself.  Even as a twelve-year-old kid at the time of the actual missions, I was already beginning to do that.

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Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.
That sentence and its implication is a huge pile of bull excrement.  I don't enjoy having my chain pulled.
If it wasn't a chain pull... well, shame on you.  If you had even a shred of credibility before, you lost it all then.

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I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything
There you have it.  Read that back to yourself.  Dak, every single issue you have raised has been absolutely and comprehensively shredded and shown to be based on ignorance - ie ... lack of education.

And now you have the hide to post this ridiculous rant?

If you are so accurate with your common sense, how is it that every single thing you brought up about Apollo was wrong?  EVEN you admit that (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=77.msg1914#msg1914).

Let's just repeat that - every claim you made was shown to be incorrect - you even said "the replies were excellent"...

So, your supposed common sense constantly leads you to wrong conclusions.  If this was me .... I'd probably be starting to realise something by now...
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Tedward on May 16, 2012, 08:43:53 AM
Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

I was taught a lot at school. No idea what the 9th grade is but in my science classes we had a lot of stuff demonstrated, I then went on to work with night school and took more classes and had many job specific courses over my working life. Not a university education by any means. So I can appreciate that rocks will be different, rockets work, orbits work, materials come in many various forms from the hard anvil surface to soft fabrics that are really strong. And a lot inbetween.


What does this mean? It means I can follow what went on and agree with it, see how stuff works. You choose not to, that is your look out. What you need to provide is solid evidence that backs you up. Would I be right in suggesting you cannot and do not want to?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on May 16, 2012, 08:58:38 AM
DakDak, you might want to use your common sense and look up the Dunning Kruger effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

"Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

    tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;"


As for your post, it certainly makes you out to be wilfully ignorant. Ignorance I can deal with, as ignorance stems from not knowing. Being wilfully ignorant is a whole other kettle of fish however. You will probably find that most people tend to avoid the wilfully ignorant...as Churchill put it "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 16, 2012, 09:31:38 AM
*Sigh*
DAKDAK, I respect you as a fellow human being, but you seem to be making this assumption that because you do not understand something it must be not understandable.
I do not have much more formal education than you, but I do know I am ignorant in much.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 16, 2012, 09:49:14 AM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

Common sense: Def; A belief formed from uninformed supposition and superstition.



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I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.  YOU HAVE NEVER Yada Yada Yada....


Well you certainly have not.  So what is your basis for criticizing those who can and have and written about it in minute detail. 



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I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade....


I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but the lack of education shows in your posts.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ineluki on May 16, 2012, 10:08:14 AM
I am truly not trying to offend anybody,

To quote Albus Dumbledore""--yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often. Best to say nothing at all, my dear man."

Or from the movie Billy Madison:
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Goodbye then, you surely don't want to spend any more time with dumb people like us.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: twik on May 16, 2012, 10:40:50 AM
So, apparently, your position is that you want to believe that the world is what YOU want it to be, and that everyone who suggests otherwise is lying.

If you want to take the "no one can know anything for sure" route, you must assume that also applies to your own beliefs (religious and otherwise). You cannot say that because the rest of us have not been to the Moon, we know nothing about it, but your looking at it from a roof with an inexpensive telescope gives you reason to think you know everything that needs to be known. You can only throw up your hands and say that no one knows anything.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 10:41:23 AM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

I've thought about it many times, and thankfully I've come to a strong understanding both of knowledge and of common sense, and I know very well what you can get from one and what you can get from the other.  And as an engineer practicing for nearly 25 years, I can tell you that the uninformed, intuitive answer (i.e., "common sense") is almost always wrong on matters of design, construction, and engineering.

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I am truly not trying to offend anybody...

Not as such, but you're trying to change the rules so that you can win the debate.  You came here presuming that you had superior knowledge.  And on that basis you tried to make arguments that said your superior knowledge of the Apollo program and the sciences that apply to it made it implausible for Apollo claims to be true.

Now that it's painfully obvious to you that you aren't the smartest guy in the room, you're doing what every single conspiracy theorist has done in the past and reject all that prior pretense to knowledge, and indeed knowledge altogether, and claim now that you have some blessed innate property that is superior to informed study.  Every conspiracy theorist appeals to "common sense" as a substitute for knowledge.

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pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us...

Why do you think our replies are "canned" and merely come from a textbook?  I've been working in this field for 25 years.  What makes you think I'd be successful unless I knew this stuff and unless it was true?  Not everyone who writes on web forums is uninformed and inexperienced.

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or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES...

Crazy, not so much.  Ignorant, very much so.  You simply don't know what you're talking about, and no amount of "common sense" compensates for that lack of knowledge.

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YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

In this modern age I don't have to physically present in a place to discover the properties that prevail there.  I've never been inside the combustion chamber of a jet engine either, but we have tools that let us know what it's like in there.

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YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

Nonsense; I can seen it from here.

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YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS

Nonsense.  Mankind has had the ability for many years to measure the temperature of remote objects.  I use commodity technology to that effect every day to measure the temperature of surfaces I cannot reach.

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OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

Nonsense.  Emissions and reflections can be measured.

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YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.

Nonsense, the techniques for doing so are more than a century old.

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YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

Nonsense.  Einstein's findings are factors in my work.

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YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON

Nonsense, gravitation is not rocket science.

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YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

Nonsense, it's part of my profession.

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YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH

Nonsense, it's my profession.

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OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Absolute rubbish.  I'm a professional aerospace engineer.  I've been working in this field for 25 years.  I've worked on much of the technology your say is impossible, and all you're doing is spouting a typical "common sense" argument from ignorance.  Just because you don't know how they work doesn't mean everyone else is similarly ignorant.

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Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college...

Nope.  This is my profession.  Nice try, but your anti-education rant is pointless.

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I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade...

That explains your scientific illiteracy.  Please don't hold your decision against us.

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I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

Unfortunately that's not good enough.  Uninformed intuition does not provide a useful working knowledge of the physical world.  Besides, since you confess below your Fundamentalist faith, it's likely that a number of your beliefs regarding the physical world derive from that superstition, such as the notion that the Moon is an emitter of light -- the Bible says so, ergo you believe it regardless of what can be quantitatively understood.

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I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

And that's a major difference between you and me.  I want people to come to believe in the facts as they are soberly discovered and studied -- whatever conclusion those facts lead to.  You, on the other hand, simply want to convince people to believe in your predetermined belief.

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That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

And that would continue to explain your rabid anti-science position.  I doubt we have very much common ground for further discussion.  You are ignorant of the facts, you resist being educated about them, and no amount of faith-based handwaving will correct that condition.

I find it amusing that you've ranted at length about how your beliefs are based solely on a commonsensical evaluation of empirical observation, then wind up your post by expressing belief in a supernatural explanation for the physical world.  Yeah, I think we're done here.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on May 16, 2012, 11:10:30 AM
DakDak's post was typed on a computer. The analogue inputs were converted to digital information, and then sent (probably) by some sort of DSL line to a remote server. This remote server then connected to this forum's webserver, over a multi-connected network called the Internet. The data was then propagated all over the world by radio waves, satellite communication, deep-sea comms links and optical links. All of which were designed and created by the very people that DakDak decries. People that didn't drop out of school, people that spent years learning, researching and pushing the boundaries of what is possible. People that use complicated theories, theories that have been tested over countless repetitions until those theories stand up to a high degree of scrutiny.

Ironic, aint it?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Chew on May 16, 2012, 11:44:56 AM

You are what is wrong with America.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on May 16, 2012, 01:02:15 PM
DAKDAK, I don't have time for a lengthy reply right now, but with reference to #8:
Quote from: DAKDAK
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
First, you are simply wrong.  I do this sort of thing for a living, and have for a couple of decades now.  I have worked on, tested, and operated real spacecraft, and have been all over the places where they are built and tested and launched, and I used to work for the guys who designed the Command Module.   

You, on the other hand - and I sincerely do not mean to give offense on my part - had trouble figuring out the volume of a cone.

Have you seriously considered that your "common sense" might simply be wrong?

Now, about that crack about "too much education":  I have an undergraduate degree in physics, and two masters' in engineering.  I want to know exactly why you think these things might be a handicap for someone like me, who actually works in this field.  Would it be somehow better if I was ignorant of the principles behind my work?

Quote from: DAKDAK
I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!
Your chances are slim if you believe thing like the Moon actually shines by itself, rather than reflecting light from the Sun (and sunlight reflected from the Earth).  Because that is demonstrably and unambiguously wrong, as are most of the other things you have said on this forum.

But I will pray for you, because, well:
Quote from: Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

and
Quote from: Augustine
Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,… and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 16, 2012, 01:17:32 PM
I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space.

Yes, I find quite a bit of what is posted at internet sites about space (and about many other things) to be total rubbish, and disbelieve much of it.

Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

Well good luck with that, I expect there is a decent chance you will be able to convince one other person.  I'm pretty confident that I will not be that person, though.

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 01:21:06 PM
You are what is wrong with America.

I agree.  There is a growing anti-science movement in the United States, propounded chiefly by people apparently motivated by religious beliefs.  These people wrongly believe not only that they fairly represent their religion, but that they represent a fresh and rational basis for government.  They govern (or propose to do so) primarily on the basis of ancient superstition, and upon wrong-headed attribution of their beliefs (and the supposed uncontestability of them) to the doctors and deities of their religions, inventing things that those agents never said or never did.  They confuse their social engineering agenda with the tenets of their faith.

Fundamentalists make horrible scientists, and even worse Christians.  American Fundamentalist Christianity is only a very small, noisy, and irritating drop in the bucket of Christian belief.  And it has nothing to do with science or whether we landed on the Moon.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 01:31:17 PM
Well good luck with that, I expect there is a decent chance you will be able to convince one other person.

Yahoo! Answers gets its share of Bible-thumping posters to the astronomy topics, so maybe DAKDAK should go there if he hasn't already been.  It's fun to watch them rail against "everlooshun" (which has nothing to do with astronomy, being a theory to explain speciation in complex biological organisms) and forget that the Big Bang theory in cosmology was actually proposed by a priest.  They wait until someone similarly "witnesses," awards him the 10 points for best answer, and then wait for the next orgy of self-congratulation.

I always dread the visit of my colleague's mother, who hails from Kansas and cannot pass up any opportunity to witness against the evil influences of "secular" science and its constant "war" against simple Bible truths.  Yeah, it's out there.  You don't have to travel very far to find people who truly believe mainstream science is a ruse concocted by Satan to tempt them away from faith in the Bible, and must be opposed with all zealous strength.  Praise Jeebus!  My colleague is a colleague of music, together with whom I provide music for a local Christian congregation (who appreciates traditional music and whose congregation includes many scientists and researchers from the nearby University of Utah).  It is possible to believe in both Jesus and protons, the Bible and gravity.  It only takes a common-sense approach to the Bible.  ;)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 16, 2012, 01:40:58 PM
Yahoo! Answers gets its share of Bible-thumping posters to the astronomy topics, so maybe DAKDAK should go there if he hasn't already been.

Yes, if the goal is to convert people, I'm not sure this is the most fertile field for recruits.

It's fun to watch them rail against "everlooshun" (which has nothing to do with astronomy, being a theory to explain speciation in complex biological organisms)

Yikes, I couldn't even tell what "everlooshun" was until reading the description!  Clearly, the whole "Too much education" idea has its adherents!

and forget that the Big Bang theory in cosmology was actually proposed by a priest.

If I am not much mistaken, the early pioneer of genetics was also a priest.

I always dread the visit of my colleague's mother, who hails from Kansas and cannot pass up any opportunity to witness against the evil influences of "secular" science and its constant "war" against simple Bible truths.  Yeah, it's out there.  You don't have to travel very far to find people who truly believe mainstream science is a ruse concocted by Satan to tempt them away from faith in the Bible, and must be opposed with all zealous strength.  Praise Jeebus!  My colleague is a colleague of music, together with whom I provide music for a local Christian congregation (who appreciates traditional music and whose congregation includes many scientists and researchers from the nearby University of Utah).  It is possible to believe in both Jesus and protons, the Bible and gravity.  It only takes a common-sense approach to the Bible.  ;)

Come to Asia, life is better here!  We have lots of Christians, but not the goofy sort.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Chew on May 16, 2012, 01:45:42 PM
I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade

I dropped out in the 11th grade and have no formal education in science or engineering so according to your criterion my common sense is just as accurate as yours. My common sense tells me the Apollo project was not hoaxed.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 16, 2012, 01:56:33 PM
I, too, was thinking of that Augustine quote.  I do quite often, usually after someone's attempt to convert me involves throwing out everything I've ever learned about science and history.  Sad, really; the Church I left has a lot of problems, but at least it has the good sense to accept the Bible as metaphor.

In all seriousness, though, what's wrong with learning things out of books?  As a historian (okay, a decidedly amateur one), I all but have to.  But the only problem comes if you assume that I'm just blindly accepting what's in the book as true--like, say, if I were taking the Bible literally!--instead of really thinking about what's there.  Comparing what various books say.  Applying a little understanding of human nature.  And so forth.  No, I'm going to stand up for book-learning, though of course practical knowledge is also important.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Laurel on May 16, 2012, 01:57:02 PM
It is possible to believe in both Jesus and protons, the Bible and gravity.
The people who were involved in Apollo are proof of this statement, I think. The Apollo 8 Christmas Eve broadcast with the Genesis reading, Buzz Aldrin's Communion on Apollo 11, Stuart Roosa listening to hymns during Apollo 14, Dave Scott leaving a Bible on the LRV, James Irwin and Charlie Duke getting involved with Christian ministry after their Apollo days, Gene Kranz mentioning in his book that he always said a prayer for the crew during the re-entry blackout... you get the idea.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: theteacher on May 16, 2012, 02:13:52 PM
Ole Roemer (sp?)

Ole Rømer :-)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 16, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
If I am not much mistaken, the early pioneer of genetics was also a priest.

Gregor Mendel was a Catholic Friar whose education was to some degree influenced by the writings of Augustine of Hippo, because at a minimum, practically everything within Catholicism is heavily influenced by Augustine.  Fundamentalist reject Catholic teachings.  Some regard Catholics as something akin to "lost" Christians while others seem to feel Catholics are not Christians at all.  In my experience, even fundies that accept Catholics individually are still suspicions about the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 02:22:20 PM
In all seriousness, though, what's wrong with learning things out of books?

Nothing.  My part of the United States was founded by Mormon settlers.  Despite their clear religious motives, one of the first things they did was set up schools and universities in which they taught the same things as you'd learn in the great universities of the East.  I was privileged to attend and teach at the university actually founded by Brigham Young (not the one merely named after him).  These conservative religious types were told to "seek learning from the best books," and otherwise not to fear secular education.

There is nothing in Christianity that forbids or discourages education.  That sentiment arises only out of the very narrow brand of American Fundamentalism, and only because their literal approach to religious belief is so soundly contradicted in many cases by observations in science that they have to lump it in with the Devil.  This spills over then into social and political circles, where education is interpreted as an attempt by social liberals to undermine the Fundamentalist's view (which is the social conservative's view) of the Good Life.

What we're dealing with here is really a tricorn argument.  We have secular learning and expertise, out of which arises mainstream science and engineering, thence the Apollo missions.  We have religion, in this case American Fundamentalism in all its superstitious glory, eschewing even its traditional Christian roots.  And then we have common sense, which is not necessarily the enemy of science but is clearly the enemy of fundamentalist religious beliefs.  If one's belief comes from Fundamentalism, then common sense will certainly not save it from absurdity.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 02:26:20 PM
Yes, if the goal is to convert people, I'm not sure this is the most fertile field for recruits.
Indeed, but "witnessing to the heathens" has value in that culture, like "counting coup."  They know they won't convert anyone, but activities that amount in their minds to facing up to the opposition give them brownie points.  When he goes back to his congregation this Sunday and tells them of his exploits here, he'll be praised for it.

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Yikes, I couldn't even tell what "everlooshun" was until reading the description!
"Evolution" as pronounced in the accent of the American South, where Fundamentalism is most prevalent.

Quote
Come to Asia, life is better here!
Do you have cookies?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: RAF on May 16, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun...

No...you are offending every rational poster here...and NO, it's not "fun" listening to your ignorant lies re. the space program.


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That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION.

Well, that's to be expected from a 9th grade dropout...ignorance....don't have a clue why you are "bragging" about it.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Valis on May 16, 2012, 03:44:45 PM
I am truly not trying to offend anybody
And then you proceed to offend all of us who practice science as our profession.
Quote
2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.
Doesn't your telescope give you an idea?
Quote
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
Phases of the moon should get you going for the latter part, a bit of thermodynamics studies would help in the temperature determination
Quote
4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
You can do this yourself quite easily. All you need is a lunar eclipse and some geometry.
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5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT
As you profess to having a telescope, use it to observe Jupiter's moons over the period of a year. That was how the first estimates of the speed of light were done, and with a little patience and careful observation, you can do it too.
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OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
I'm a physicist. I've tested and taught how to test Newton's laws with pendulums, springs, and so on. I've also used and taught how to test Einstein's special relativity and photoelectric effect.

Science done by dogma fails. The basic tenet of science is to do your experiments, and not directly trust any source without verification. Your process is the opposite: You state how things must be, and either reject any data contradicting your preconceptions, or try to twist the data match them. You'll get nowhere that way, as has happened with creationism and intelligent design.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: BazBear on May 16, 2012, 03:57:50 PM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense. I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.
..............................
I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space. I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.
Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!
You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!
So I guess you didn't come here to learn, and frankly I'm not surprised. If you want to try understand the world through the prism of what you call "common sense", and books written by superstitious men a couple of thousand years ago, have at it. It's your loss, not ours. But please don't use your arguments from ignorance to try to tell us that things that we know to be facts are bogus.

Some very smart and educated people (several with real world, hands on experience in relevant fields) have tried to help educate you and correct your misconceptions. Sadly, they've wasted their time. You've wasted your time as well, as no one here is going to buy your nonsense, no matter how long and loud you shout from atop your soapbox.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 16, 2012, 04:28:56 PM
The more you know the less qualified you are to make a judgement on what you know.

Hmm. Is this a new one?

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 16, 2012, 04:31:20 PM
DAKDAK, I would consider myself a Christian. I was raised in a Christian home and I believe in what I feel to be the core tenants of Christianity, based on the parable of the Good Samaritan.
While I am not the fondest of its ornate pomp and circumstance, I would consider a genuine Catholic, one who believes rather than simply carrying a cultural legacy, to be a Christian.
The same can be said of any denomination.
But that isn't what I wish to discuss.
What I would like to say is that I believe God gave us a most exquisite gift, curiosity. 
See, I think God wants us to explore Creation, wants us to work to understand this great work we call the Universe.
Science is one way of understanding the Universe, especially the physical portion.
Often, such investigations lead to results that don't fit our intuitive understanding of the world, our 'common sense'.
The world of the very small  and the world of the very fast can be very different from our normal experiences.
But all that means to me is that God's work is complex, that it has depth, that there is always more to discover, like an artist hiding details in a painting, waiting for a curious eye to spot them.
I find that sublime.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ka9q on May 16, 2012, 06:28:05 PM

5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

First of all, the speed of light is now a DEFINED value: 299,792,458 meters/sec. Any error in measuring either the second or the speed of light will result in a change to the length of the meter. This change was made in the early 1980s; that's how accurately we can now measure the speed of light.

I have personally measured the speed of light many times, and in several different ways.

I'm a radio ham. The size of a radio antenna depends directly on two things: the operating frequency and the speed of light. When I operate an antenna on a certain frequency, I am proving that the speed of light is what it's supposed to be.

Whenever I use GPS, I am also relying on the speed of light being 299,792,458 meters/sec. It wouldn't work otherwise.

I have sent radio signals through communications satellites and measured the round trip delay. Knowing the distance, which I calculated myself, I can once again verify the speed of light.

Just because YOU don't know any of this stuff doesn't mean no one else does. That's a very common belief among Apollo deniers, and it's really quite sad that you remain so willfully ignorant.

 
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: DataCable on May 16, 2012, 07:34:37 PM
5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
Einstein's "laws of physics" or Newton's "laws of gravity."  I'm fairly certain they taught the difference between possessives and plurals long before the 9th grade.


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Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.
I'll come back to this in a moment.

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...the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars...
Which were given right back to the American Public.  Just who do you think designed and built all that hardware you claim wouldn't work?  That's a pretty poor job of robbery.

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I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!
So, you actually observed this?  Or were you taught this in some sort of school, or by a book you read and believed?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: peter eldergill on May 16, 2012, 08:22:33 PM
This is one of the biggest crashes and burns I've seen in a while (only thing missing is profanity!). I saw the post really early on but didn't bother responding.

I doubt we'll hear from DakDak again and I don't think there's much else to say in this thread that hasn't already been said

Pete
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 16, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
Quote
Come to Asia, life is better here!
Do you have cookies?

Not only do we have cookies, we even have multi-region DVD players!
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
Just who do you think designed and built all that hardware you claim wouldn't work?  That's a pretty poor job of robbery.
Expenditures for Apollo are a matter of public record, and almost all the funds went to publicly-held companies.  We can affirm that Apollo expenditures never constituted more than a single-digit percentage of the overall U.S. federal budget during its development and operation.

Contrast this with public education, which routinely spends an order of magnitude more per year.  This is exactly the same education that DAKDAK dismisses as mere indoctrination, and from which he resigned in disgust as a tender-aged adolescent.  Where may we find his argument to de-fund all public education as wasteful and abhorrent?  Why the focus on Apollo?

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Or were you taught this in some sort of school, or by a book you read and believed?

There you go.  The authors of my textbooks describe the research upon which they base their findings, and those in turn describe the methods employed to test the validity of the research.  And subsequently the claims in my textbooks have been vindicated by my reliance upon them in a professional setting, where results count.  Thermodynamics, for example, works.  It's not just the product of some athetistic plot concocted to rob the faithful of their place in heaven.

On the other hand I'm reasonably sure that the authors of the Bible conducted no experiments to test the propositions contained therein, nor have the generations of theologists thereafter employed any empirical or other validation to their claims.  In fact, a major tenet of those theses is the essential, fundamental unknowability of the true nature of the subject matter.  The Fundamentalist's deity is by definition unable to be comprehended by us mere mortals.  Hence I see no reason to consider it so much more common-sensical than that which I can observe and test myself.  Explicitly the opposite, in fact.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 16, 2012, 09:01:01 PM
Expenditures for Apollo are a matter of public record, and almost all the funds went to publicly-held companies.  We can affirm that Apollo expenditures never constituted more than a single-digit percentage of the overall U.S. federal budget during its development and operation.

Peaked around 4% of the budget during Apollo.

Contrast this with public education, which routinely spends an order of magnitude more per year.

This expenditure is substantially more than the NASA budget, even if you only count the federal portion!  And most education spending in your country comes from state/local governments.  Estimates for total education spending are about $1.15 trillion a year, compared to $17 billion for NASA, a difference of > 60 times.

This is exactly the same education that DAKDAK dismisses as mere indoctrination, and from which he resigned in disgust as a tender-aged adolescent.  Where may we find his argument to de-fund all public education as wasteful and abhorrent?  Why the focus on Apollo?

Especially since Apollo has been over some decades, so the expenditures are zero :)  (Or close to zero - they might still have an historian or librarian somewhere.)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: LunarOrbit on May 16, 2012, 10:05:11 PM
Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

Whenever someone claims to know something because "it's common sense" it almost always turns out that person is horribly wrong.

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I am truly not trying to offend anybody

I guess it just comes naturally to you then because you do it so well without even trying.

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1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

I've never been to Australia either, but I don't automatically assume anyone who claims to have been there is lying. Why do you assume NASA is lying?

Quote
2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

I've seen it through a telescope. I've also seen photographs of the lunar surface from multiple independent sources, some of whom would love to embarrass the others by exposing them as liars. The United States and Russia were hostile towards each other for decades, and yet they agree with each other about all aspects of the moon and the authenticity of Apollo. So why should I doubt them?

Quote
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

As others have mentioned, you can estimate the surface temperature of the moon based on how rocks on Earth absorb and radiate heat. It's not magic.

And the whole idea that the moon emits light is just stupid. Incredibly stupid.

Quote
4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

I've never done it personally, no. But why should that be necessary? Why do you assume the people who have are lying? Because they're contradicting your beliefs?

Quote
6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON
7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

Blah, blah, blah. We get it. We've heard it before. You think we shouldn't believe Apollo landed on the moon because we didn't do it ourselves. We reject that because it is faulty logic. If we only believed what we witnessed ourselves then I would be forced to doubt the existence of Australia. I would have to believe that whales are fairy tale creates because I have never seen one with my own eyes. But unlike you, I don't assume people are lying to me just because I didn't share their experiences personally.

What NASA has told us (aided by the use of film and photographs) about Apollo just makes sense. They have explained in great detail what they did and how they did it. No one on the hoax theory side has ever come close to providing an alternative story that makes as much sense.

Quote
I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space.

I have never met someone as proud of being ignorant as you are. Education is not something to be ashamed of. It's enlightening. It's freeing. You just don't like it because you might learn something that contradicts what you already believe.

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I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

If you believe that the moon emits light then I doubt you have really looked at it through a telescope. And thankfully that belief isn't common.

Go take a really good look at the moon. Do you see those shadows cast by mountains and craters? How does something that emits light have shadows on it's surface? Have you ever seen shadows on the surface of a lit lightbulb?

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Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject

First of all, stop using the words "common sense" because you completely lack it. You've lost the right to claim to have common sense at this point. Your ideas are based on ignorance, and when ignorant people try to explain something that they don't understand we get things like gremlins, ghosts, UFOs, and magic. Science tries to understand the universe. Religion, on the other hand, just says "God did it. Stop asking questions!"

Secondly, politicians don't need to invent a hoax about going to the moon in order to steal our tax dollars.

Quote
and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!
You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

"Hooray for ignorance! Woohoo!"

I hope someday that you come to realize that knowledge isn't a bad thing. I'm sure your God, if he or she exists, would prefer to see you reach your full potential rather than waste it.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on May 16, 2012, 10:16:40 PM
DAKDAK, do you actually believe any of this stuff you're posting, or are you just trolling?  Your posts are so over-the-top and full of spectacular wrongness that I suspect you're just pulling our legs now.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: twik on May 16, 2012, 10:52:36 PM
To make some allowances for DAKDAK, if he dropped out in 9th grade (and probably wasn't too interested before that), he is quite likely unaware of just how we have measured things like gravity or the distance between the Earth and the Moon. The fact that people were able to judge celestial distances quite early on, using things like parallax, was probably not something he was taught. If you don't know the history of how things were discovered or measured, it is quite easy to believe that it is a completely arbitrary system of beliefs, and that one is entitled to pick and choose views of nature in a cafeteria-style world view.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 16, 2012, 11:36:54 PM
I've never been to Australia either, but I don't automatically assume anyone who claims to have been there is lying.

Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Laurel on May 16, 2012, 11:45:15 PM
I've never been to Australia either, but I don't automatically assume anyone who claims to have been there is lying.

Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.

As a Canadian, I object. Ontario is real. And Quebec and the Maritime provinces. I've never been to Western Canada though. That region is totally made up.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 16, 2012, 11:56:28 PM
Really, vast amounts of the world are made up so far as my personal experience can prove.
Title: Re: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 17, 2012, 02:07:04 AM
This is one of the biggest crashes and burns I've seen in a while (only thing missing is profanity!). I saw the post really early on but didn't bother responding.

I doubt we'll hear from DakDak again and I don't think there's much else to say in this thread that hasn't already been said

Pete

It was certainly spectacular. I was almost speechless. What do you say to that?

To quote another spawn of Satan, "are you sure its not time for another colourful metaphor?"
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: BertL on May 17, 2012, 08:01:35 AM
It's reasoning like this that make people believe things like the Earth is still flat (http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/). I have never been to Canada; who's to say it exists (http://www3.telus.net/summa/moonshot/canada.htm)? (Note: the last article is written to demonstrate the flawed logic with this kind of reasoning based solely on "common sense". The website of the first link, sadly, is entirely serious.)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: dwight on May 17, 2012, 08:03:31 AM
I think it is good that people like DAKDAK post their garbage. It makes it all the more easier for the fence-sitters to make their minds up about who is right.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 17, 2012, 08:54:25 AM
Here's another thing for DAKDAK (should he ever bother reading this again) and others to consider:

YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

The 1960s were not that long ago, and on several boards such as this one are people who were actually around at the time, and who therefore may be expected to have first hand knowledge of what the technological state of the art was in that period. In other words, people who definitely do know more than DAKDAK, me, or any number of other people who weren't there about the capabilities of those things.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Inanimate Carbon Rod on May 17, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
There's something about DAKDAK that puts me in mind of Karl Pilkington.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Bob B. on May 17, 2012, 09:51:59 AM
7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

Uh, yeah.

Below are some examples of the work I've done in this area:

Circumlunar Free Return Trajectory (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/free-return.htm)
Hybrid Lunar Profile with LOI and TEI (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/hybrid-profile.htm)
Apollo 11's Translunar Trajectory (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/apollo11-TLI.htm)

I'm also in the process of writing an article explaining and demonstrating the mathematics for calculating interplanetary trajectories.  It's not quite finished yet so I can't link to it, but it will probably go live on my web site sometime next week.  I also intend to include a section specifically about lunar transfer trajectories, though that will probably be added later.  The draft I'm currently working on stands alone without that section, so I'm not going to delay making it public.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: mako88sb on May 17, 2012, 01:01:15 PM
I've never been to Australia either, but I don't automatically assume anyone who claims to have been there is lying.

Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.

As a Canadian, I object. Ontario is real. And Quebec and the Maritime provinces. I've never been to Western Canada though. That region is totally made up.

Oh I see. I suppose all those transfer payments we send your way are made up to! Grrr! ;D
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 17, 2012, 01:43:11 PM
I think it is good that people like DAKDAK post their garbage. It makes it all the more easier for the fence-sitters to make their minds up about who is right.

Well, there's that, certainly.  I've often felt that being polite and informative are your best weapons in a battle of education.  Dakdak, apparently, can be neither.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: scooter on May 17, 2012, 02:35:42 PM
It's pretty obvious that Dak won't be listening to anything posted here. What a perfect display of willful ignorance.
I think he personifies many others we've seen here and elsewhere, but I've just never seen the delusion so clearly stated.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 17, 2012, 09:30:46 PM
Circumlunar Free Return Trajectory (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/free-return.htm)

How did you work that out?  The earth is fixed and the moon is easy under the assumptions made.  For the spacecraft, I take it it was numeric integration?  Was the amount/direction of the initial burn determined by trial and error, or is there a better way to do it?

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 18, 2012, 12:09:15 AM
I have never been to Canada; who's to say it exists (http://www3.telus.net/summa/moonshot/canada.htm)?

Already covered.  It doesn't.  Do you believe in Bielefeld too?

Circumlunar Free Return Trajectory (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/free-return.htm)

How did you work that out?  The earth is fixed and the moon is easy under the assumptions made.  For the spacecraft, I take it it was numeric integration?  Was the amount/direction of the initial burn determined by trial and error, or is there a better way to do it?

Just to follow up, the idea has occurred to me to write a computer program which plots out these sorts of trajectories (under simplified assumptions), for my own amusement.  So what I am wondering is, a) am I going to discover quickly that it is more blood sweat and tears than amusement, and b) with the computers we have today, is it important to take the right approach, or will any reasonable numeric integration technique do the trick with sufficient accuracy?
Title: Re: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 18, 2012, 02:52:01 AM
I have never been to Canada; who's to say it exists (http://www3.telus.net/summa/moonshot/canada.htm)?

Already covered.  It doesn't.  Do you believe in Bielefeld too?

Circumlunar Free Return Trajectory (http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/free-return.htm)

How did you work that out?  The earth is fixed and the moon is easy under the assumptions made.  For the spacecraft, I take it it was numeric integration?  Was the amount/direction of the initial burn determined by trial and error, or is there a better way to do it?

Just to follow up, the idea has occurred to me to write a computer program which plots out these sorts of trajectories (under simplified assumptions), for my own amusement.  So what I am wondering is, a) am I going to discover quickly that it is more blood sweat and tears than amusement, and b) with the computers we have today, is it important to take the right approach, or will any reasonable numeric integration technique do the trick with sufficient accuracy?

I'll race you! Since interplanetary trajectories were done with the patched conic back in the old days, I wonder if using a patched comic would be good for getting a starting r and v and then maybe an iteration until we arrive at the right one? The problem I see with this is that orbits are funny things and an automated solution might be difficult as small changes cause unpredictable changes to the result.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Rob260259 on May 18, 2012, 03:08:09 AM
I think it is good that people like DAKDAK post their garbage. It makes it all the more easier for the fence-sitters to make their minds up about who is right.

Couldn't agree more. Besides, reading all comments here was a true joy. It was very instructive as well.
 
Title: Re: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 18, 2012, 04:14:02 AM
I'll race you! Since interplanetary trajectories were done with the patched conic back in the old days, I wonder if using a patched comic would be good for getting a starting r and v and then maybe an iteration until we arrive at the right one? The problem I see with this is that orbits are funny things and an automated solution might be difficult as small changes cause unpredictable changes to the result.

(Emphasis mine.)  If it goes like most software projects, I would expect the first few versions would produce "patched comic" results, before all the bugs are found and we start to get "patched conic" results  ;D

Thing is, I think it wouldn't be too difficult to write an algorithm that is "correct", i.e., which converges to the truth when the discrete steps get smaller and smaller.  But the simplest, most intuitive algorithms may not be the most efficient.  So I am wondering whether the difficulty of the problem and the state of computing technology are such that it is OK to just write (almost) any correct algorithm, and the awesome power of whatever level of Pentium we're at these days will save you, or if it is still important to take the effort to make the algorithm as efficient as possible.

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 18, 2012, 11:23:18 AM
I think making a first principles simulation of the three body problem will be incredibly trivial in today's terms. You could do time steps by the millisecond and it won't take too long to run.

I've done hydrocarbon reservoir simulation do full fluid physics on 10000 block reservoir models and it took about 7 minutes per run. The three body problem is slide rule territory by comparison.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 18, 2012, 11:48:45 AM
Patched conics give you reasonable starting values.  If you have accurate models of Sun, Earth, and Moon motion in your solution, integrating the state vector at 0.1 second intervals will work very nicely.  My celestial body models are harmonic equations with about 200 terms each, but that's because I use the same models for interplanetary orbits.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: cjameshuff on May 18, 2012, 12:06:41 PM
I think making a first principles simulation of the three body problem will be incredibly trivial in today's terms. You could do time steps by the millisecond and it won't take too long to run.

It is quite trivial, vastly simpler than getting a useful patched conic solution, and you can get stable, reasonably realistic orbits without much trouble given only an initial state. Taking tidal effects and such into account increases the complexity significantly, but isn't needed for basic spacecraft trajectories.

However, you can get into trouble with rounding using extremely small timesteps, and the simplest methods require small timesteps to get a good approximation. You'll really want to use something higher order than Euler's method. There's a variety of methods with varying properties with respect to energy conservation, rate of convergence, the forces and derivatives needed, and complexity...RK4 is commonly used but seems more complex than it's worth. I've personally used Velocity Verlet, Beeman's algorithm, and Chin's Algorithm C. And backward Euler can be useful for a very simple approach.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Trebor on May 18, 2012, 03:56:18 PM
I think making a first principles simulation of the three body problem will be incredibly trivial in today's terms. You could do time steps by the millisecond and it won't take too long to run.

It is quite trivial, vastly simpler than getting a useful patched conic solution, and you can get stable, reasonably realistic orbits without much trouble given only an initial state. Taking tidal effects and such into account increases the complexity significantly, but isn't needed for basic spacecraft trajectories.

However, you can get into trouble with rounding using extremely small timesteps, and the simplest methods require small timesteps to get a good approximation. You'll really want to use something higher order than Euler's method. There's a variety of methods with varying properties with respect to energy conservation, rate of convergence, the forces and derivatives needed, and complexity...RK4 is commonly used but seems more complex than it's worth. I've personally used Velocity Verlet, Beeman's algorithm, and Chin's Algorithm C. And backward Euler can be useful for a very simple approach.

At the risk of getting educated do you know of a good resource which goes into this in detail?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: cjameshuff on May 18, 2012, 04:24:24 PM
At the risk of getting educated do you know of a good resource which goes into this in detail?

Wikipedia has overviews of most of the methods I mentioned. Don't recall where I found Chin's Algorithm, but Google brings up the original paper (http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0006082.pdf).
Title: Re: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 19, 2012, 01:03:28 AM
I'll race you!

Well I'm out of the starting gate!  I'll take it to another thread though.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 19, 2012, 05:21:18 AM
DAKDAK may not be saying much, but they're still around; their profile says their last activity was earlier today.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Kiwi on May 19, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
DAKDAK may not be saying much, but they're still around; their profile says their last activity was earlier today.

Perhaps he's soaking up all the tremendous education in this thread and chewing it over.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: DataCable on May 19, 2012, 01:28:23 PM
Does anyone else hear a Duran Duran song in their head every time they see the thread title?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 19, 2012, 06:58:25 PM
Does anyone else hear a Duran Duran song in their head every time they see the thread title?
Thankfully no.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ka9q on May 21, 2012, 03:40:27 AM
Quote
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
As others have mentioned, you can estimate the surface temperature of the moon based on how rocks on Earth absorb and radiate heat. It's not magic.
Actually, we can directly measure the moon's surface temperature all the way from earth just by looking at the electromagnetic radiation it emits. Yes, in addition to reflecting sunlight the moon emits its own radiation; you just can't see it because it's in the far infrared, not the visible spectrum like the sun.

Every object above absolute zero emits electromagnetic energy over a range of wavelengths, with the peak wavelength inversely proportional to its temperature. The hotter the object, the more total power it radiates and the shorter the peak wavelength of that radiation. By looking for that peak, you can directly determine the object's temperature.

The sun' "surface" ** temperature is about 5900K so its radiation peaks in the visible spectrum, with substantial amounts in the near infrared and near ultraviolet. The moon is much colder, so its radiation peak is in the far infrared (as is the earth's). In fact, it emits detectable amounts of radio noise in the microwave spectrum. This is useful because our atmosphere is mostly transparent to microwave radiation while carbon dioxide, water and other trace gases have strong absorption lines in the far IR that are best known for contributing to the greenhouse effect.

** Of course the sun doesn't have a solid "surface" or even a well-defined boundary since it is entirely composed of plasma. Like every atmosphere, its density just drops off exponentially with altitude. What we see as its "surface" is the level at which the sun's atmosphere is dense enough to become opaque to visible light.

Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Stout Cortez on May 21, 2012, 09:58:25 AM
Somewhere I saw a re-creation of Laurel and Hardy in which they are portraying rocket scientists. Laurel proposes that since men have been to the moon, they should land a man on the sun. Hardy says that it's far too hot. Laurel thinks for a moment and then says, "Let's land him there at night when it's cooler." Hardy says, "Now you're thinking!"

Good old common sense....
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ineluki on May 22, 2012, 07:00:59 AM
Does anyone else hear a Duran Duran song in their head every time they see the thread title?
Thankfully no.

Pink Floyd seems to apply better anyway.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: BertL on May 22, 2012, 07:31:30 AM
Come now, people. Leave this kid alone.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on May 22, 2012, 10:04:01 AM
If the picture attached to this post (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=83.msg1732#msg1732) is of DAKDAK, I would hardly call him a "kid".  Looks all grown up to me, so I'll treat him like an adult.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Mr Gorsky on May 22, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
Does anyone else hear a Duran Duran song in their head every time they see the thread title?
Thankfully no.

Pink Floyd seems to apply better anyway.

The Duran song, I assume, is 'Too Much Information' anyway so, Duran fan that I am ... I'm with Floyd on this one.

And it pains me to yet again see a fellow person of faith taking the religion good, science bad course. I have never yet found the two things to be incompatible ... even creation vs evolution is a crock, as the two things are not mutually exclusive. After all, why would an all-knowing, all-powerful God create a universe that wasn't capable of managing and developing by itself and needed him (or her) to directly intervene when any changes were required?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 22, 2012, 11:47:40 AM
If the picture attached to this post (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=83.msg1732#msg1732) is of DAKDAK, I would hardly call him a "kid".  Looks all grown up to me, so I'll treat him like an adult.

You mean the post where he thanks us for debating with him and states how impressed he is with the credentials of this site's participants?  I guess we all know where that was destined to go.

I simply have little patience with arguments of the form, "My untested, ignorant superstition trumps your degrees and years of experience."
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ApolloGnomon on May 22, 2012, 12:12:21 PM
I simply have little patience with arguments of the form, "My untested, ignorant superstition trumps your degrees and years of experience."

Isn't that approach a form of "Poisoning the Well" fallacy anyway?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: AtomicDog on May 22, 2012, 12:27:30 PM
If the picture attached to this post (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=83.msg1732#msg1732) is of DAKDAK, I would hardly call him a "kid".  Looks all grown up to me, so I'll treat him like an adult.

Whoosh?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 22, 2012, 03:10:27 PM
Isn't that approach a form of "Poisoning the Well" fallacy anyway?

Whose approach?  Mine or his?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ApolloGnomon on May 23, 2012, 02:04:17 AM
I'm sorry to be unclear.

His approach, Dakdak's.

The entire OP premise of the thread is a form of Poisoning the Well:
"Education is bad. Therefor things learned by education can be dismissed..."

I dunno. Maybe I've run into this too many times at Delusional Idiots Forum - the entire notion that somehow education is bad, or unnecessary, or is a tool of the "elites" to brainwash the masses just seems like sour grapes.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on May 23, 2012, 10:17:57 AM
If the picture attached to this post (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=83.msg1732#msg1732) is of DAKDAK, I would hardly call him a "kid".  Looks all grown up to me, so I'll treat him like an adult.
Whoosh?

Ohhh... Pink Floyd... "Leave this kid alone."  I get it, finally.

Sometimes I'm just as thick as a brick in the wall.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 23, 2012, 01:40:37 PM
Sometimes I'm just as thick as a brick in the wall.

Nice save!  It went over my head too...
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 23, 2012, 03:21:01 PM
I'm sorry to be unclear.

His approach, Dakdak's.
No worries; you can argue it either way.  You can say he's poisoning the well by saying that if you're too educated, you can't see the "common sense" reasons why Apollo had to be fake.  Or you can say that I'm poisoning the well by handwaving at "superstition" rather than taking DAKDAK's argument on its merits.

The latter would be well-poisoning if I were to say, "He's a Fundamentalist Christian, so you can't expect him to make sense."  That would ignore the merits of his argument.  But if I say, "His dismissal of the scientific arguments for Apollo is more likely motivated by his Fundamentalist beliefs," that's a defensible position.

Quote
I dunno. Maybe I've run into this too many times at Delusional Idiots Forum - the entire notion that somehow education is bad, or unnecessary, or is a tool of the "elites" to brainwash the masses just seems like sour grapes.

I agree.  In the general case, people with appropriate education are dismissed as being too educated to see what others see plainly with their common sense.  They rely on the premise that everything always should be intuitively obvious, even when experience shows it isn't.  This is attractive to people who feel limited by their lack of education and want something to help them see education as a useless hindrance to practical knowledge.  Sour grapes, as you say.

And as you go on to say, a different flavor of this claim says that anyone who has been through the process of formal education has been brainwashed by the Powers That Be into thinking the way they want you to and knowing only what they want you to know.  Part of the general woo-woo philosophy is that certain people are innately more gifted at understanding the universe, and that this intuition gives them more insight and information than other people who have to rely upon the "crutch" of education and be thus stifled.

However the Fundamentalist provides another dimension.  Yes, it's still poisoning the well.  But the anti-education sentiment arises from the tendency of things learned in school to contradict directly the Fundamentalist's interpretation of holy writ.  Astrophysics and cosmology directly dispute the literal 7-day creation cycle.  Paleontology and biology directly dispute the ab origine speciation of organisms.  And if the Bible says the Moon emits light, then the belief had better be that the Moon emits light; any "science" that says differently is somehow wrong.

But equipped with a firm, unshakable faith in an absurdly literal interpretation of ancient writings, the Fundamentalist sees science as a perversion of the truth, as a way of substituting a feeble man-made knowledge for the God-approved truths that ought to prevail.  So it's seen as a more insidious, more direct threat to "approved" belief.  Instead of, "Oh, you poor misdirected and benighted sheeple," it's more like, "You instruments of the Devil!  Stay away from me."  There is an irony to that style of faith because the stronger and more rational the opposition, the more the adherent's faith is steeled to resist it.  He gets spiritual brownie points for holding to his faith no matter how attractive or sensible the alternative.  Some elements of science are literally characterized as the efforts of the Devil to tempt and try your faith.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: slang on May 23, 2012, 07:14:25 PM
It's curious how fast the objections to years and years of training fade away when one desperately requires a heart surgeon, or a radiation therapy specialist, or a pilot, or a "my computer acts funny, fix it!" person, or a lawyer, or an architect. Or would DAKDAK waive his insurance policy, and let a 9th grade drop-out perform brain surgery on him if he needs it?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Ranb on May 23, 2012, 09:21:41 PM
..... Or would DAKDAK waive his insurance policy, and let a 9th grade drop-out perform brain surgery on him if he needs it?

I like.  But the irony will probably be lost on him.  :)

Ranb
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 24, 2012, 03:50:29 PM
I just saw the futurama robo evolution episode. It was in one way a rebuke to dak dak by tearing down the false dilemma of either having religious belief or accepting evolution.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Kiwi on May 25, 2012, 09:16:52 AM
Sometimes I'm just as thick as a brick in the wall.

Sometimes.  You haven't got anything to complain about then...  I'm often thick as a brick (got that song too) and sometimes very oftenAlways does seem a long way off though.  (Crosses fingers.)


It's curious how fast the objections to years and years of training fade away when one desperately requires a heart surgeon, or a radiation therapy specialist, or a pilot, or a "my computer acts funny, fix it!" person, or a lawyer, or an architect.

When I simply drive over a particular new bridge I'm glad it was designed and built by educated people.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 25, 2012, 12:33:48 PM
This international, multi-platform, computer network and the computer itself we, including DAKDAK, are using to communicate?
 I doubt they would work if designed by someone without 'too much education'.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 25, 2012, 12:52:38 PM
It's curious how fast the objections to years and years of training fade away when one desperately requires a heart surgeon...

It's heart-wrenching sometimes to realize that these are often the same people who rely upon faith healing rather than obtain medical attention for their dependents.  And the same ones who will happily duct-tape an old broken microwave oven together and defeat the failsafe.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on May 25, 2012, 01:10:39 PM
It's curious how fast the objections to years and years of training fade away when one desperately requires a heart surgeon...

It's heart-wrenching sometimes to realize that these are often the same people who rely upon faith healing rather than obtain medical attention for their dependents.  And the same ones who will happily duct-tape an old broken microwave oven together and defeat the failsafe.

Even worse the Jehovah's Witnesses that deny their children life-saving blood transfusions. Some would call it making the ultimate sacrifice, I would call it manslaughter.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 25, 2012, 01:36:22 PM
My answer tends to be, "How do you know that penicillin isn't the answer to your prayers?"
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Bob B. on May 25, 2012, 06:39:29 PM
My answer tends to be, "How do you know that penicillin isn't the answer to your prayers?"

That reminds me of a joke…

A raging river overflows its banks and begins to flood an adjacent town.  As the floodwaters surrounds a man's house he climbs up to the roof.  Shortly later a rescue boat sails up to the house offering to take the man to safety.  The man refuses to board saying, "My God will save me."  As the waters continue to rise, a helicopter flies over the house, but the man again refuses help saying, "I'm putting my faith in God, he will save me."  Eventually the waters flood over the house and the man is swept away and drowns.  When he arrives in heaven he asks God why he didn't hear his prays.  God answers, "I sent you a boat and a helicopter, what more do you want?"
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 26, 2012, 02:50:24 AM
I was going to reply with almost that exact same story. ;D
If God made us, They also gave us ingenuity and intelligence. Prayer can be a good way of showing support and well wishes, which are a significant part of the healing process, but one should not put the Lord thy God to the test, but instead make use of the gifts already given.
Modern medicine is one such gift.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 26, 2012, 03:26:21 AM
My uncle (born again) once gave my mother (Catholic) a lecture on the power of prayer.  When my grandmother was dying of Parkinson's, he apologized to her for it.  My uncle is smart enough to know that there are some things where human ingenuity is important.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Mr Gorsky on May 26, 2012, 08:20:26 AM
God would not have given us reason and intelligence if we were expected to never use them. It is those very things that provide the free-will without which faith is meaningless. I believe that miraculous healings do take place, and have witnessed a couple, but a miracle is exactly that ... an unusual, out of the ordinary experience, normally reserved, in my opinion, for when there is a reason for it to take place.

I have what I describe as a broken eye - a scarred retina as a result of a squash ball hitting it, and for a few months after the injury occurred several people were praying for it to be healed. I asked them to stop, not least because I came to realise that while there was nothing medical science could do do to heal it, it didn't actually prevent me doing anything I did before. Except watch 3D movies, although whether that is a good or bad thing is an open question.

Anyway, enough faith talk.

it just makes me sad every time I see a person of faith arguing faith over science, especially as it effectively highlights that their faith doesn't extend to the notion that their creator knew what he was doing in giving humans a fully functioning brain and the creativity to use it.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 26, 2012, 08:28:02 AM
I'm reminded of the guy who jumped into a tiger enclosure in a zoo carrying a bible and insisting that God would protect him. I think it more likely that if indeed there is a god he was up there looking down saying 'oh come on, give me a break!'. Certainly the man got mauled to death by the tiger...
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on May 26, 2012, 10:39:51 AM
If God made us, They also gave us ingenuity and intelligence.

There's even a prayer to that effect in the Episcopalian tradition, stating that God has blessed his children "with memory, reason, and skill."
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 26, 2012, 11:58:26 AM
There's even a prayer to that effect in the Episcopalian tradition, stating that God has blessed his children "with memory, reason, and skill."
I can certainly respect that.  :)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on May 26, 2012, 02:46:17 PM
There is an implicit assumption that a lot of people (at both ends of the religious spectrum) make that it is impossible to be both a person of faith and a person of science.  However, I think it's a lot more common than people realize, if you open it up to not merely scientists but people who respect the value and importance of science.  Just because I'm lousy at physics doesn't mean I don't think physics is important.  Just because I believe in a deity doesn't mean that I think that deity wants to limit human understanding.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ginnie on May 30, 2012, 07:50:37 PM
I've never been to Australia either, but I don't automatically assume anyone who claims to have been there is lying.

Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.

Hey!  ;D
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on May 30, 2012, 11:42:32 PM
Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.

Hey!  ;D

Oh, come on.  A country larger than China, but with only 2.5% of the population, most of whom are lumberjacks, which has both English and French as official languages, where the football teams have twelve players who have only three downs to advance the ball, and the police look like this?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/RCMP_officer_on_a_horse.JPG/220px-RCMP_officer_on_a_horse.JPG)

Next you'll be telling us that moose are real  ::)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 31, 2012, 08:01:26 AM
where the football teams have twelve players who have only three downs to advance the ball

No way, that is entirely implausible.  We all know that God mandated 11 players and 4 downs.

Quote
Next you'll be telling us that moose are real  ::)

I can attest to moose, in fact a Møøse once bit my sister.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on May 31, 2012, 09:08:01 AM
It is a country where men (and woman) attach blades to their feat, carry two handed wooden paddles, and fight it out, occasionally taking the time to try and put a piece of rubber into two nets.
Allegedly, this is also a country known for its Ned Flanders levels of courtesy.
This contradiction is excellent proof of the Canada Hoax.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on May 31, 2012, 12:09:30 PM
It is a country where men (and woman) attach blades to their feat, carry two handed wooden paddles, and fight it out, occasionally taking the time to try and put a piece of rubber into two nets.
Allegedly, this is also a country known for its Ned Flanders levels of courtesy.
This contradiction is excellent proof of the Canada Hoax.

That sounds too educated.  My common sense tells me that Canada isn't biologically possible.

I mean look at it! (http://teaspoonsinterrogated.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/canada.jpg)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on May 31, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
It is a country where men (and woman) attach blades to their feat, carry two handed wooden paddles, and fight it out, occasionally taking the time to try and put a piece of rubber into two nets.
Allegedly, this is also a country known for its Ned Flanders levels of courtesy.
This contradiction is excellent proof of the Canada Hoax.

There's no mention of Canada in the Bible either, so it can't exist. ::)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: frenat on May 31, 2012, 03:19:04 PM
It is a country where men (and woman) attach blades to their feat, carry two handed wooden paddles, and fight it out, occasionally taking the time to try and put a piece of rubber into two nets.
Allegedly, this is also a country known for its Ned Flanders levels of courtesy.
This contradiction is excellent proof of the Canada Hoax.
And what about curling?  You can't tell me a sport .ike that really exists.  Yet more proof of the Canada hoax.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Mr Gorsky on May 31, 2012, 06:45:40 PM
No way, that is entirely implausible.  We all know that God mandated 11 players and 4 downs.

Sorry. Genuine football involves 11 players as you say, but the only "down" is where they throw themselves when an opponent almost touches them.

Quote
I can attest to moose, in fact a Møøse once bit my sister.

And I will now complete this post at low cost and in a completely different style.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 31, 2012, 07:03:06 PM
No way, that is entirely implausible.  We all know that God mandated 11 players and 4 downs.

Sorry. Genuine football involves 11 players as you say, but the only "down" is where they throw themselves when an opponent almost touches them.

I though that was basketball.
Quote
Quote
I can attest to moose, in fact a Møøse once bit my sister.

And I will now complete this post at low cost and in a completely different style.

I am always glad to meet others who can't resist picking the low hanging fruit. 
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ChrLz on May 31, 2012, 08:11:16 PM
Continuing the offtopicness while we await Dak's responses..

As far as I am aware, there is only one deity-endorsed game involving an inflated ball.  That would be one involving no protective gear, no restrictions on use of hands, very few breaks in play, and a simple scoring system where there are no silly results..

here ya go:
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on May 31, 2012, 11:10:05 PM
Great video, those are tough guys.  But that music, I couldn't quite remember who one of the bands was, AB/CD or something.  Weren't they Canadian.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ChrLz on June 01, 2012, 07:29:32 AM
Great video, those are tough guys.  But that music, I couldn't quite remember who one of the bands was, AB/CD or something.  Weren't they Canadian.

:D

Akchewly, the band was from the UK, I think - but no, it wasn't the Oz rock gods AC/DC (pronounced 'ackadacka', BTW).  I understand it wasn't backed by an Oz band because all of our good musicians play football on weekends.. But I do think AC/DC's "Thunderstruck" would have made a nicer bit of background music...

FTR, we *like* Canadians down here - they remind us of us.  Big country, few people, great sense of the ridiculous.  And I could almost watch ice hockey - those blokes might make decent AFL players - with a bit of beefing up, and if they had the guts to take off all that soft padding..

(runs for it..)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Tedward on June 01, 2012, 07:50:51 AM
Only one shape for a sports ball and that is egg shaped, and only one game, that is rugby....... ;)

50,000 Welsh persons on song in one stadium when the old enemy are at bay...... shivers down your spine....


Note to non rugby fans: Old enemy is tongue in cheek, with any luck it will not get bitten off.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on June 01, 2012, 08:36:18 AM
Only one shape for a sports ball and that is egg shaped, and only one game, that is rugby....... ;)

50,000 Welsh persons on song in one stadium when the old enemy are at bay...... shivers down your spine....


Note to non rugby fans: Old enemy is tongue in cheek, with any luck it will not get bitten off.

For sure....none of that nancying American "football" stuff where they run for 8 seconds and then have a rest for 10 minutes.


(Zakalwe lights blue touch paper and runs like hell  ;D ;D)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on June 01, 2012, 09:03:04 AM
For sure....none of that nancying American "football" stuff where they run for 8 seconds and then have a rest for 10 minutes.

That is one of the reasons I don't watch much American football anymore.  But like most of the country, I watch the Super Bowl because of the commercials. 
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on June 01, 2012, 09:07:06 AM
Great video, those are tough guys.  But that music, I couldn't quite remember who one of the bands was, AB/CD or something.  Weren't they Canadian.

:D

Akchewly, the band was from the UK, I think - but no, it wasn't the Oz rock gods AC/DC (pronounced 'ackadacka', BTW).

That is funny, because at 4:30, there is this familiar voice screaming "you shook me all night long."
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ChrLz on June 01, 2012, 10:04:09 AM
That is funny, because at 4:30, there is this familiar voice screaming "you shook me all night long."
Aaargh - you got me!  I musta been concentrating too much on the visuals, and foolish enough to believe the info beneath the video - it only refers to one track by a uk band.  Now that I have listened a bit more carefully, there's lots of different tracks in there...  Geez, there's even a Bitter Sweet Symphony there..
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Chew on June 01, 2012, 11:00:07 AM
Bring back the Flying Wedge I says.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on June 01, 2012, 11:06:20 AM
Now THIS is a sport...


Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on June 01, 2012, 11:38:41 AM
"Bubba, you've played every sport there is... football, basketball, baseball, rugby...  What was the toughest one?"

"Golf."

"Golf?  Are you kidding us?  How could golf be the toughest sport for a guy like you?"

"I played defense." (Picture of Bubba leaping for the block as a golfer tees off)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on June 01, 2012, 11:58:28 AM
Hurling looks fun!  Bonus points for the Crystal Method soundtrack too.  One of my favorite bands.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on June 01, 2012, 01:19:24 PM
Only one shape for a sports ball and that is egg shaped, and only one game, that is rugby....... ;)

50,000 Welsh persons on song in one stadium when the old enemy are at bay...... shivers down your spine....


Note to non rugby fans: Old enemy is tongue in cheek, with any luck it will not get bitten off.

Bloody Six Nations was on pretty late in the evening here :(
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on June 01, 2012, 01:54:04 PM
Sadly, about the only sport I will sit and watch is curling.  For one, I love any sport with co-ed teams, and that pretty much leaves you curling.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Laurel on June 01, 2012, 02:28:52 PM
Would pairs figure skating and ice dancing count as sports with co-ed teams?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on June 01, 2012, 02:37:56 PM
Mixed doubles tennis, anyone?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on June 01, 2012, 02:46:46 PM
Sadly, about the only sport I will sit and watch is curling.

That was the hot ticket at the 2002 Winter Games here.  Wow.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on June 01, 2012, 02:48:45 PM
So the biathlon combines target shooting and cross-country skiing, which I guess is important if you want to be in the Swiss army.  And not just to get the knife.

I advocate combining other sports, such as figure skating with fencing, and high-dive with archery.  I'd definitely watch more sports if that happened.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on June 01, 2012, 03:03:16 PM
Oh, I would totally watch fencing on skates. 
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on June 01, 2012, 03:35:42 PM
We probably have actually jumped the shark now.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Tedward on June 01, 2012, 03:49:19 PM
Ice hockey is just boxing on ice. Maybe a shark in at the deep end would speed things up in swimming, not so much combining sports, but tweaking them.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Tedward on June 01, 2012, 03:53:55 PM
Only one shape for a sports ball and that is egg shaped, and only one game, that is rugby....... ;)

50,000 Welsh persons on song in one stadium when the old enemy are at bay...... shivers down your spine....


Note to non rugby fans: Old enemy is tongue in cheek, with any luck it will not get bitten off.

Bloody Six Nations was on pretty late in the evening here :(

Which part of the world? You have probably said.

It was a good year for the boyos. Some good matches and these are on terrestrial TV, not sure if there was a web option at the same time.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on June 01, 2012, 04:47:49 PM
We probably have actually jumped the shark now.
What a great new sports idea!
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Zakalwe on June 01, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Ice hockey is just boxing on ice. Maybe a shark in at the deep end would speed things up in swimming, not so much combining sports, but tweaking them.

Only if the sharks have frickin lasers...

(http://blog.davender.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/dr_evil1.jpg)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Chew on June 01, 2012, 07:37:40 PM
Chess-Boxing has been invented already.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: nomuse on June 02, 2012, 11:33:16 AM
SMBC:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1488
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ginnie on June 02, 2012, 02:03:28 PM
Good, because I've been to Australia.  It's real.  Not like Canada.

Hey!  ;D

Oh, come on.  A country larger than China, but with only 2.5% of the population, most of whom are lumberjacks, which has both English and French as official languages, where the football teams have twelve players who have only three downs to advance the ball, and the police look like this?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/RCMP_officer_on_a_horse.JPG/220px-RCMP_officer_on_a_horse.JPG)

Next you'll be telling us that moose are real  ::)
I don't know of any lumberjacks, but I hear they still exist out in the wilds.
Canada invented "american" football in 1861.
And mounties only wear that when some important Brit or Yank comes to town.
In my home province of Newfoundland there are more moose than people I think.
BTW in high school I loved rugby. So much purer compared to football.

oh, and Australia often reminds me of Canada!
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Not Myself on June 02, 2012, 03:58:54 PM
oh, and Australia often reminds me of Canada!

Yes, Australia is a lot like Canada.  Only real  ;D
Title: R
Post by: DAKDAK on June 02, 2012, 11:18:00 PM
[
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Laurel on June 02, 2012, 11:23:27 PM
Never mind. The many, many Apollo-related questions put to you are more relevant to this section of the board anyway.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Bob B. on June 03, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
Would pairs figure skating and ice dancing count as sports with co-ed teams?

I dont understand the question

Really?  That's the question you decided to respond to?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: ChrLz on June 03, 2012, 04:17:52 AM
Dak, may I delicately suggest you go back to *your* last post on the thread, and then work forward from there?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 03, 2012, 06:37:10 AM
DAK, that's typical seagull posting right there. Stop playing games and actually engage in the debate you claimed you wanted to start.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Luke Pemberton on June 03, 2012, 04:47:39 PM
Sadly, about the only sport I will sit and watch is curling.

That was the hot ticket at the 2002 Winter Games here.  Wow.

That's probably because the UK won the gold. It became big news here. I guess a lot of ex-pats probably took an interest. That's my theory.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on June 03, 2012, 11:16:19 PM
DAKAK, I am still waiting for answers:

Quote from: DAKDAK
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
First, you are simply wrong.  I do this sort of thing for a living, and have for a couple of decades now.  I have worked on, tested, and operated real spacecraft, and have been all over the places where they are built and tested and launched, and I used to work for the guys who designed the Command Module.   

You, on the other hand - and I sincerely do not mean to give offense on my part - had trouble figuring out the volume of a cone.

Have you seriously considered that your "common sense" might simply be wrong?

Now, about that crack about "too much education":  I have an undergraduate degree in physics, and two masters' in engineering.  I want to know exactly why you think these things might be a handicap for someone like me, who actually works in this field.  Would it be somehow better if I was ignorant of the principles behind my work?
Title: Re: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Glom on June 04, 2012, 12:18:27 AM
I want to know exactly why you think these things might be a handicap for someone like me, who actually works in this field.  Would it be somehow better if I was ignorant of the principles behind my work?

If he told you that he'd be educating you.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: raven on June 04, 2012, 02:14:11 AM
Sadly, about the only sport I will sit and watch is curling.

That was the hot ticket at the 2002 Winter Games here.  Wow.

That's probably because the UK won the gold. It became big news here. I guess a lot of ex-pats probably took an interest. That's my theory.
I wonder what curling sounds like to a blind man.  ;)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on June 04, 2012, 01:44:15 PM
I wonder what curling sounds like to a blind man.  ;)

"Sweep!  Sweep!"
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Echnaton on June 04, 2012, 02:58:24 PM
I wonder what curling sounds like to a blind man.  ;)
Yawn?


Joking aside, curling is an inexplicably compelling sport to watch.  It has a level of tension driven by the slow determination of the players in devising a strategy punctuated by few seconds of thrill as the stone is let go and the brooms fly.  And best of all, the public address system is not hitting the audience with overly loud and compressed music at every break. 
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: PetersCreek on June 04, 2012, 04:37:08 PM
I wonder what curling sounds like to a blind man.  ;)
Yawn?

Get.out.of.my.head!  That's just what I intended to post.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Al Johnston on June 04, 2012, 05:26:36 PM
So the biathlon combines target shooting and cross-country skiing, which I guess is important if you want to be in the Swiss army.  And not just to get the knife.

Actually, it was invented by the Norwegians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon) ;D
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on June 04, 2012, 05:50:59 PM
Actually, it was invented by the Norwegians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon) ;D

Yeah, but who wants a Norwegian army knife?

My favorite is the French army knife:  http://imgace.com/pic/2011/10/french-army-knife/
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: DataCable on June 04, 2012, 05:56:19 PM
My favorite is the French army knife
From the national stereotype, I was expecting it to be all white flags.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: frenat on June 04, 2012, 06:03:08 PM
My favorite is the French army knife
From the national stereotype, I was expecting it to be all white flags.

It needs a cheese knife.
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: JayUtah on June 04, 2012, 06:08:21 PM
My favorite is the French army knife
From the national stereotype, I was expecting it to be all white flags.

There were a few images like that.  But I love the plethora of corkscrews. :)
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: gillianren on June 04, 2012, 08:18:47 PM
I love the word "plethora."
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Chew on June 04, 2012, 10:18:57 PM
I love the word "plethora."

"Hefe, would you say I have a plethora of gifts?"

I'm on my P.O.S. phone so would somebody please post a clip of that exchange?
Title: Re: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: Count Zero on June 04, 2012, 11:54:40 PM
Oh, all right.

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTUmczVdik)

The movie had its moments, but it was hardly a classic, imo.
Title: Re: tPlease tell your BOSS to delete the post
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 01:53:27 AM
Please tell your BOSS to delete the post

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:12:34 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:13:38 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:14:48 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:15:53 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:18:04 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: DAKDAK on June 05, 2012, 03:19:00 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK
Title: Re: t
Post by: Abaddon on June 05, 2012, 07:20:02 AM
Please ask the moderator to delete

Topic: Videos of the vehicle that took (supposedly) took Apollo 11 to the moon 

And any and all things posted by DAKDAK

Please ask the moderator too ban DAKDAK

No, Your feet are being held to the flames.

You came here for debate, and now you are running away.

Support your claims, or suffer humiliation.

Your choice.
Title: TOO MUCH EDUCATION
Post by: sts60 on June 05, 2012, 10:38:53 AM
Here, reconstructed for Lunar Orbit's convenience, is DAKDAK's original post in all its glorious arrogance and ignorance.
******

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.

1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!
2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON
7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH
OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space.

I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!
Title: Re: t
Post by: Al Johnston on June 05, 2012, 06:03:59 PM
Actually, it was invented by the Norwegians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon) ;D

Yeah, but who wants a Norwegian army knife?

Given that the Norwegians consider jumping off a mountain with only a pair of skis strapped to your feet to hold you up to be a sane and popular activity, who knows what their knives would look like? ;D