Author Topic: Good books about the moon landings hoax?  (Read 341608 times)

Offline RAF

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #165 on: September 01, 2014, 08:46:32 AM »
I've  discussed the moon hoax with people, and the subject is usually met with 'does it really matter? Apollo really landed man on the Moon, why are you even bother talking about a lunatic fringe element.'

That's the usual response I get. Personally, I have met exactly "one" person in the last decade who even brought up the Moon hoax....and I don't think that person really believes Apollo was faked...they just like the rise they get out of me when they mention it.

Like others have posted, if the Moon hoax isn't dead, it's certainly on it's last legs.





Online Peter B

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #166 on: September 01, 2014, 09:46:14 AM »
The thing that struck me about Capricorn One - even as a layman space travel buff who, at the time, had barely even heard about moon hoax believers - was that it was just so damn stupid.  Going to Mars in what appeared to be an unmodified Apollo stack?  Landing on Mars - right through the atmosphere - in a Lunar Module?

Those issues didn't bother me with the movie, although they were certainly incongruous. The point was that the Saturn V was playing the role of "Big Honking Mars Rocket" and the LM was playing the role of "Mars Lander", in much the same way the actors were playing characters.

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No radio chatter about news and sports scores (impossible to tape in advance), even while they were in reasonable radio range? No panoramas of the Mars landscape - just a single static shot of the LM? And on and on, ad nauseum.

These were more significant issues, but still not the main reason the movie fails for me.

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I understand that the movie maker was focused on the conspiracy aspect, and that enjoying science fiction usually requires a certain suspension of disbelief, but the tonnage of disbelief was just too much for me to get off the ground. It was as if they thought that going to Mars was the same as going to the moon, just a little further away.  And Peter Hyams really had no excuse for not knowing better, or for thinking that his audience - a generation that had grown up with Mercury-Gemini-Apollo - wouldn't know better.

Maybe so.

For me the movie falls apart because the conspiracy itself is implausible.

For one example, the reporter hero decides to visit his NASA Mission Control mate, only to find a strange woman living in the apartment (The Powers That Be have disposed of him for asking awkward questions). With a pile of rent statements conveniently available it seems the woman's been living there for years, and the reporter retreats, baffled. But this was an apartment complex. Why didn't he ask a few of the neighbours in the apartment complex what had happened to his mate?

He then goes back to his car, which was parked in the street. However as he drives off he finds it's been sabotaged; the accelerator is jammed on while the ignition won't turn off and the brakes don't work. Fortunately the saboteurs left him a working steering wheel and horn, so he's able to warn other drivers as he speeds around the city and eventually safely crashes into water. Even so, that's a pretty impressive sequence of things to sabotage in a car in the couple of minutes the reporter is in the apartment, with apparently none of the neighbours noticing anything being done to the car. And anyway, wouldn't it have been easier to just blow up the car or stage a mugging-gone-wrong?

Finally, the intrepid reporter heads out to a deserted Western town which one of the astronauts had visited before the mission. There he's shot at twice by a gunman working for TPTB, but both shots miss. The reporter runs back to his car and drives off. Two shots? And they both miss? If TPTB wanted him dead (as the earlier sabotage and their actions towards the astronauts suggested) why didn't the gunman fire a few more shots, or chase after the reporter?

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #167 on: September 01, 2014, 02:08:09 PM »
The point was that the Saturn V was playing the role of "Big Honking Mars Rocket" and the LM was playing the role of "Mars Lander", in much the same way the actors were playing characters.

Indeed, but what strange casting.  Even as a youngster I knew you couldn't send an Apollo stack to Mars.  I knew the Saturn V didn't have the payload-to-orbit capacity, I knew the CSM couldn't carry enough expendables, and I knew the LM was no good for an atmospheric landing.

There were reasons.  Hyams wanted every aspect of the film except for the plot to be as utterly unremakrable as possible, and for him that meant showing real space hardware.  It was gamble that worked for some people but not for others.  The actor-playing-a-role explanation is as good an urge as any to just pretend it's uber-realistic space hardware.

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For me the movie falls apart because the conspiracy itself is implausible.

It's not hard to see why conspiracy theorists hold this movie up as an example of realism on that point -- their own theories are full of exactly the same nonsense and plot holes.  They can't see the plot holes in Capricorn One probably for the same reason they can't evaluate the objective credibility of their own theories.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Jockndoris

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #168 on: September 01, 2014, 02:21:25 PM »
You should probably mention that you are its publishers. Anyway, I've read the synopsis and it's the ramblings of a fantasist.

When the publisher's synopsis contains the sentences, "However, when Neil Armstrong died in 2012, lots of memories started flooding back [to the author]," and "Read how the author met Neil Armstrong's ghost several times and how he recalled with complete freedom the secrets behind the greatest military hoax of all times," you know you're about to be swindled.

Yes, since you're not apparently making your book generally available, Jockndoris, please fill us in on whether the it's intended to be factual.
Of course the book is based on fact.  As I state on the back of the book 
‘These stories are absolutely true-exactly as I recall them.’
Just to make absolutely sure I flew 21 hours to Honolulu in November 2013.
I checked at the Navy Marine Golf Club near Pearl Harbor that I had played golf with Neil Armstrong on 21 July 1969.  They gave me a great welcome and were able to confirm that we won the competition on that day. All the details are in the book which is available on our website   www.jockndoris.co.uk  where you can order a copy to be sent airmail.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #169 on: September 01, 2014, 02:38:36 PM »
Of course the book is based on fact.

So you're prepared to prove that the ghost of Neil Armstrong visited its author.

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‘These stories are absolutely true-exactly as I recall them.’

And your memory is infallible?  And you claim to talk to ghosts?
 
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Just to make absolutely sure I flew 21 hours to Honolulu in November 2013. I checked at the Navy Marine Golf Club near Pearl Harbor that I had played golf with Neil Armstrong on 21 July 1969.  They gave me a great welcome and were able to confirm that we won the competition on that day.

Please list here the name of the person at the golf club to whom you spoke and who, according to you, confirmed that the astronaut Neil Armstrong played golf there with you on that date.  I will be verifying your story.

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All the details are in the book which is available on our website   www.jockndoris.co.uk  where you can order a copy to be sent airmail.

I'm not paying for your book, but feel free to send me a complimentary review copy.

If you're going to shill your commercial products here, you had better pretend to give details when asked, and give them here.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #170 on: September 01, 2014, 02:47:38 PM »
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Haunted by Neil Armstrong (ISBN: 978-0-9535748-3-4) is 64 pages long costs £9.95 and should be of interest to anyone who thinks the Moon Landings might have been a Hoax. It shows that on 21 July 1969 the day that Neil Armstrong was supposed to be landing on the Moon he was in fact playing golf with the author at the Navy Marine course in Honolulu near Pearl Harbor. The entry in the visitors book showing they won the competition states so. Recommended for all including the sceptics.

The Full Story (ISBN: 97809535748-4-1) carries on where Haunted left off to give a full 96 pages at a cost of £11.95. It tells of visits to the astronauts training grounds including underground Caves. The author was given full rein to his imagination and recalls with complete freedom a meeting with Ellison Onizuka. Meet Neil Armstrong's ghost in 2013 and hear how the Moon Landings were really done !! and what he thinks we should do now to really get into Space.

From your website, JocknDoris.  Do you honestly think anyone is going to read these summaries and believe that your writings are intended as anything except a fictional send-up?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Allan F

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #171 on: September 01, 2014, 03:19:20 PM »
You should probably mention that you are its publishers. Anyway, I've read the synopsis and it's the ramblings of a fantasist.

When the publisher's synopsis contains the sentences, "However, when Neil Armstrong died in 2012, lots of memories started flooding back [to the author]," and "Read how the author met Neil Armstrong's ghost several times and how he recalled with complete freedom the secrets behind the greatest military hoax of all times," you know you're about to be swindled.

Yes, since you're not apparently making your book generally available, Jockndoris, please fill us in on whether the it's intended to be factual.
Of course the book is based on fact.  As I state on the back of the book 
‘These stories are absolutely true-exactly as I recall them.’
Just to make absolutely sure I flew 21 hours to Honolulu in November 2013.
I checked at the Navy Marine Golf Club near Pearl Harbor that I had played golf with Neil Armstrong on 21 July 1969.  They gave me a great welcome and were able to confirm that we won the competition on that day. All the details are in the book which is available on our website   www.jockndoris.co.uk  where you can order a copy to be sent airmail.

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Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline frenat

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #172 on: September 01, 2014, 03:24:31 PM »
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Haunted by Neil Armstrong (ISBN: 978-0-9535748-3-4) is 64 pages long costs £9.95 and should be of interest to anyone who thinks the Moon Landings might have been a Hoax. It shows that on 21 July 1969 the day that Neil Armstrong was supposed to be landing on the Moon he was in fact playing golf with the author at the Navy Marine course in Honolulu near Pearl Harbor. The entry in the visitors book showing they won the competition states so. Recommended for all including the sceptics.

The Full Story (ISBN: 97809535748-4-1) carries on where Haunted left off to give a full 96 pages at a cost of £11.95. It tells of visits to the astronauts training grounds including underground Caves. The author was given full rein to his imagination and recalls with complete freedom a meeting with Ellison Onizuka. Meet Neil Armstrong's ghost in 2013 and hear how the Moon Landings were really done !! and what he thinks we should do now to really get into Space.

From your website, JocknDoris.  Do you honestly think anyone is going to read these summaries and believe that your writings are intended as anything except a fictional send-up?
Sounds like a bad fan-fiction.
Ignoring for a second that NONE of the hoax evidence stands up to scrutiny, we're supposed to believe that in the middle of the hoax, NASA just let Neil travel to Hawaii, play in what looks like a publicized golf tournament, and sign the visitor's log with his real name?  And that nobody happened to notice?  And that the log from 50+ years ago even still exists?
 ::)
Yeah, sounds like bad fan-fiction.  At least it has as much credibility and consistency as all the rest of the hoax crap.
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Offline RAF

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #173 on: September 01, 2014, 03:48:12 PM »
Of course the book is based on fact.

Oh brother...another one...

edit to add...ya know what?...I really wish that ghosts were real, so that Neil could haunt the crap out of this joker for LYING about his greatest accomplishment.

Haunt him to the point of insanity. Brruuuhahahahaha...

Wow, I'm feeling particularly evil today...must be the heat. :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 03:54:53 PM by RAF »

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #174 on: September 01, 2014, 04:04:18 PM »
This bit:

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on 21 July 1969 the day that Neil Armstrong was supposed to be landing on the Moon he was in fact playing golf with the author at the Navy Marine course in Honolulu near Pearl Harbor.

is not true.

I'm not sure if I can put it any more simply, Neil.

http://www.ukuva.co.uk/author.htm

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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #175 on: September 01, 2014, 04:05:16 PM »
Of course the book is based on fact.  As I state on the back of the book 
‘These stories are absolutely true-exactly as I recall them.’

I have no trouble believing that, because I know that delusional people really do believe that what happens to them while they are experiencing a delusion, is real.

Just to make absolutely sure I flew 21 hours to Honolulu in November 2013.
I checked at the Navy Marine Golf Club near Pearl Harbor that I had played golf with Neil Armstrong on 21 July 1969.  They gave me a great welcome and were able to confirm that we won the competition on that day. All the details are in the book which is available on our website   www.jockndoris.co.uk  where you can order a copy to be sent airmail.

I have also met Neal Armstrong (note the spelling of the first name) when I was attached to Hickam AFB for an electronic equipment course back in the late 1970's. that is Senior Master Sergeant Neal Armstrong. He was often teased about his name.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #176 on: September 01, 2014, 04:06:15 PM »
Sounds like a bad fan-fiction.

Yes, emphasis on bad.  His other stories are in the ghost-visitation genre -- historical fiction.  Sticking to that would have been a good idea.  Here, however, he's muddied the genre with cloak-and-dagger.

I see from his posting history here that he has zero track record of producing evidence when asked, so I don't expect him to be forthcoming with the name of the golf-course employee who helped him.  Of course I can call them up -- their number is public.  But as today is a U.S. holiday popular with golfers, and as of this writing they will have just opened for the morning, I won't call them today.  But I fully expect them to say they haven't the faintest idea what this author is talking about.  And then I predict he'll either run away, or have some predictably lame excuse, such as protecting this or that, or maintaining the party line.

Nothing wrong with the historical fiction genre, as long as you put down that it's fiction.  There's a paragraph prefacing James Michener's Space that explains what he intends to be fictional and what he intends to be factual.  However, this poor author has claimed it to be fact, which is the worst thing you can do if you're a historical fiction writer.  There are enough people who care about the integrity of the historical record that they don't want your ten-quid fantasy mucking it all up.

But then when you go and pollute one genre with an incompatible one, you're just asking for it.  The "ghost of Neil Armstrong" bit is clearly fantastical and clearly plays into the kind of fiction this author likes to write.  But that alone could have worked.  People would know it was meant as fiction.  But when you combine it with allegations of fact such as a golf tournament and hoaxed missions, you've got one foot on the boat and the other still on the dock.  Not a very tenuous position.

The golf-tournament claim is patently absurd.  No one trying to perpetrate a multi-billion-dollar hoax is going to do something so obviously unwise as to appear conspicuously in public and leave paper records of it.  My guess is this author has cooked up a claim that seems just plausible enough to convince a few people to part with a few quid over it.  But he sure won't help us verify it.  And he knows none of his readers will.

If he's gonna stick to the claim that it's a true story, then the ghost-of-Armstrong bit goes right out.  You can't prove claims of fact by appealing to the supernatural.

But if the claim is that the Moon landings were faked, then that has a body of evidence associated with it that has nothing to do with whether Armstrong was playing golf in Hawaii on some given day.  That's a claim that can be defended without referring to Armstrong at all.

In another thread he bragged about having a couple thousand hits to his site.  (At least we know he's clocking hits as a result of his shilling.)  My site gets many tens of thousands of hits per month.  I can work a few SEO and keyword magic tricks to make sure my site comes up on a search for his books.  Imagine what his sales will look like when someone can click on my review and read that I contacted the golf course in question and discovered that they don't know what he's talking about.  Imagine when that likely outcome becomes a sentence in the Amazon reviews I publish.

So the evidence had better be forthcoming, and quickly.  I note that he's under moderation, which means he has only a very few posts to convince us here he's not a shill or a troll.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #177 on: September 01, 2014, 04:11:42 PM »
I have also met Neal Armstrong (note the spelling of the first name) when I was attached to Hickam AFB for an electronic equipment course back in the late 1970's. that is Senior Master Sergeant Neal Armstrong. He was often teased about his name.

If only he hadn't upped the ante...

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"In fact he played with all Three Men in Honolulu and won first prize at Navy Marine Golf Club - its in their visitors book" (emphasis added)

http://www.jockndoris.co.uk/haunted_by_neil_armstrong.php

I figured we might find some Neil Armstrong in the guest book from 1969, but odds on it being the astronaut are slim.  He's claiming the visitor's book at the golf course will show us not only Armstrong the astronaut's name, but also those of Aldrin and Collins.  What the log book is going to have to show in order to verify this author's claims is now highly improbable.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #178 on: September 01, 2014, 04:28:51 PM »

Of course the book is based on fact.  As I state on the back of the book 
‘These stories are absolutely true-exactly as I recall them.’

Blimey.

And here I was thinking that Chartered Accountants were reputed to be some of the most boring people on the planet. Not only have you played golf with Neil Armstrong, but you have also dallied with Mary Queen of Scots, met Sir Walter Scott AND cured arthritis! All this from a "respected 57 year old Chartered Accountant who's word is never questioned" Well, it's being questioned here!

May I respectfully say that Sir is madder than a box of frogs and fruitier than a fruit cake.  ::) ::) ::)
 
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Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #179 on: September 01, 2014, 05:08:56 PM »
$16.50, one assumes plus shipping, for a glorified pamphlet?  Who would pay that?
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