Author Topic: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?  (Read 52568 times)

Offline ChrLz

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 07:10:31 AM »
.. And I have to report back that:

1. The British Interplanetary Society have not responded to my request for information about the event, eg a transcript, video or even acknowledgement that it went ahead.

2. Googling doesn't seem to show anything - does anyone know if the event actually took place?

One 'good' thing is that googling Marcus Allen + BIS turns up this thread as the top link..   :P

Offline BazBear

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 12:36:28 AM »
Whenever I see this thread title, all I can think of is this Marcus Allen.

Maybe we could arrange a "debate" between the two Marcus Allens...

...in full pads and helmets of course *Boom!*  ;)
"It's true you know. In space, no one can hear you scream like a little girl." - Mark Watney, protagonist of The Martian by Andy Weir

Offline raven

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 04:29:10 PM »
Apparently the Director of Medical Research and Operations was a Doctor Charles A. Berry.
I wonder if ol' Chuck ever did music . . .

Offline twik

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 10:13:17 PM »
Whenever I see this thread title, all I can think of is this Marcus Allen.



You too?

Offline gwiz

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2012, 04:28:19 AM »
There's a report of the meeting in the latest issue of Spaceflight magazine.  According to that, Marcus Allen said he didn't take issue with the Apollo landings, just the photographic record.  At the end, he appeared to be having second thoughts about his claims, having never before had the experience of having an educated audience rebut every claim.

He has now joined the BIS.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline twik

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2012, 09:27:24 AM »
Lol!

(Sorry for the internetspeak, but I can't think of anything else to indicate just how funny that is.)

Offline ka9q

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 02:25:05 PM »
This is remarkable, a hoax proponent changing his mind when given facts and logic. He really ought to be commended; that's extremely rare.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 03:23:34 PM »
...having never before had the experience of having an educated audience rebut every claim.

Yeah, that's the key.  Don't depend for your credibility on audiences that are ill-equipped and uninterested in testing you.  I'm glad he was persuaded to see reason.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 03:26:50 PM »
This is remarkable, a hoax proponent changing his mind when given facts and logic. He really ought to be commended; that's extremely rare.

Indeed, and I can attest to how humbling it is to realize all along how wrong you've been, and how everyone but you has seen it for quite a long time.  To have taken such a public position against the Apollo photography and then to have to eat public crow is not a fun circumstance.  I hope people continue to recognize what a big step he's taken.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline DataCable

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 09:10:36 PM »
At the end, he appeared to be having second thoughts about his claims, having never before had the experience of having an educated audience rebut every claim.
Translation:  NASA got to him and he's now receiving a gub'mint shill paycheck.
Bearer of the highly coveted "I Found Venus In 9 Apollo Photos" sweatsocks.

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Offline raven

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 09:17:52 PM »
At the end, he appeared to be having second thoughts about his claims, having never before had the experience of having an educated audience rebut every claim.
Translation:  NASA got to him and he's now receiving a gub'mint shill paycheck.
If he's getting one, where's mine? ;D

Offline gillianren

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 10:55:28 PM »
I, for one, could really use the money.  Car troubles.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline ChrLz

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2012, 04:32:03 AM »
There's a report of the meeting in the latest issue of Spaceflight magazine.  According to that, Marcus Allen said he didn't take issue with the Apollo landings, just the photographic record.  At the end, he appeared to be having second thoughts about his claims, having never before had the experience of having an educated audience rebut every claim.

He has now joined the BIS.

Gee whiz, gwiz!  Thank you very much for that report - I sit here rather stunned...  I'd *really* like to see that issue - I presume it will get webified at some point, in the meantime I shall try to hunt it down at local newsagencies..

I am wondering, if there really has been a change of heart, whether Marcus Allen will now be as eager to admit he was wrong, as he has been (over many years) to express his views that the missions were likely faked.  If he does, I shall also applaud him, but I'll wait to see what happens.  Will this be reported in detail in the next issue of his magazine, I wonder?


Offline Zakalwe

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2012, 02:42:40 AM »

Gee whiz, gwiz!  Thank you very much for that report - I sit here rather stunned...  I'd *really* like to see that issue - I presume it will get webified at some point, in the meantime I shall try to hunt it down at local newsagencies..


Here you go (hopefully I havent broken any copyrights by doing this):

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline ChrLz

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Re: A sad development - Marcus Allen at the BIS?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2012, 06:14:42 AM »
Here you go (hopefully I havent broken any copyrights by doing this):
That is great!  Thanks so much, Zakalwe.  I couldn't find it locally, and was too cheap to order it over the web..  Given this usage is for educational purposes, may I continue by ocr-ing some interesting quotes from that article:

Quote
Many BIS Members and Fellows challenged the need for the Society to hold such a debate, not a few seeing it as pandering to the 'fringe' conspiracy groups supporting the notion that humans never landed on the moon. A waste of time, well, those expecting a fiery confrontation with noted sceptic Marcus Allen were confounded, for it did not turn out that way at all. It turned out that Marcus Allen and the BIS learned more than they expected.
...
The most impressive aspect to this fascinating evening was the dignity of the audience, the respect for personal opinion displayed by those present, and by the extended interchange where Apollo veterans in the audience contributed in a knowledgeable way.
...
When asked by Spaceflight Editor David Baker to define the precise position he takes, Marcus Allen asserted that he does not challenge the fact that Apollo astronauts landed on the moon. This is contradictory to his published position and the view he takes on radio and TV interviews.
...
...the BIS was able to answer each and every aspect of the photography challenged by Mr Allen. In fact, in closing, he thanked his audience and said that he had never had such a comprehensive and convincing set of rebuttals from any group he had ever spoken to. He openly admitted that this one evening had done a great deal to lie to rest several misgivings he had previously held.
...
the BIS learned a lot too that it would perhaps not have understood had the event not taken place. That rather than being diehard zealots, many who have misgivings about the Apollo landings are ignorant of the facts simply because they have been unable to access explanations in an understandable form.
...
In the best possible expression of what the BIS stands for, this evening debate helped demolish myths previously believed by Marcus Allen and enabled all those present to receive a first class lesson in a logical and dignified manner. And the best bit of all? Marcus Allen has joined the BIS!

I'm still letting this sink in..  While I will concede that this seems to have gone very well for the side of truth, there were some interesting statements in it, esp. the bits I have bolded, about Mr Allen now backing away from his Apollo denial, and the fact that somehow people like him 'are unable to access' the facts.  What, is clavius.org too hard to find?? - and this guy's a researcher?  Doesn't he even watch MythBusters?  save me...

Be interested to hear comments.