Author Topic: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?  (Read 224967 times)

Offline Dr.Acula

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #480 on: February 15, 2015, 11:16:37 AM »

My history is of leading ,not following.

The number of followers seems to be easily manageable.

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My goal in debunking the NASA moon landing hoax is to remove a cornerstone element of a fabricated reality, a fabrication I feel is detrimental to the interests of the human race..
Until now you haven't shown any evidence supporting your various claims. Debunking doesn't work this way.

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Surely you realize that is not an accurate representation. smart people are much more likely to question what they're told and with subject like Apollo they're going to go through the same stages I did..
Remembering your apalling low level of research (my two favorites: capsule white on the launchpad and publication of Apollo by the Numbers), I guess, you haven't found any stage until now.

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  In the real world there are two opinions concerning Apollo: 1) I don't give a damned, I'm too busy and distracted just trying to survive; or 2) What a freaking' farce. If you had ever been a part of "the real world" you would know that.
Fixed it for you: 1) I don't understand anything, so it must be fake. 2) I'm too lazy to do a proper research, because this would destroy my "real life"

And now you can go to GLP and explain your "victory" here.  ;D
Nice words aren't always true and true words aren't always nice - Laozi

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #481 on: February 15, 2015, 11:53:13 AM »
I almost didn't approve that post. It is insulting to (insert person, sex, race, religion, etc.)

That describes everything that Romulus posts.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #482 on: February 15, 2015, 12:14:02 PM »
My history is of leading, not following. Almost without exception, my positions on such things as Apollo and the 911 false flag start out being marginal, and as time goes on it changes to mainstream belief.

No.  Your posts on Apollo are simple repetitions of claims made by others, all of which were debunked more than a decade ago, and many of which are not even claimed anymore by today's hoax claimants.  They are neither original nor persuasive, nor are they gaining greater acceptance over time.

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My goal in debunking the NASA moon landing hoax is to remove a cornerstone element of a fabricated reality, a fabrication I feel is detrimental to the interests of the human race..

No, I don't think that's your goal.  I think your goal is to aggrandize yourself, and to do that by means of singling out for scorn the people whose attention you envy.  You said it yourself.  You came here to get dirt on people for the purposes of "taking them down," and you affirm that you got the screen shots you needed and had no more reason to participate.  How disingenuous of you now to claim you had noble aims.

You have attempted to prove a fabrication, but you cannot.  You clearly don't understand any of the sciences or methods that pertain to Apollo or space travel in general.  You may have convinced yourself that you do, but you have not convinced anyone else.  As a result, you rely on borrowed claims that you do not understand; you seem to think they are self-evidently correct.

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I have no problem admitting feeling alienated in a restrained and regulated  intellectual environment like this forum that is geared towards staying within certain boundaries in order to form an illusion that intelligent people do not doubt NASA's claims or integrity as a whole.

No, your inability to convince anyone of your beliefs has nothing to do with rules of this forum that prohibit your preferred method of foul-mouthed browbeating.  It has more to do with your incompetence in the relevant sciences, your inability to think critically, and your reliance on long-forsaken third-party material.

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Smart people are much more likely to question what they're told and with subject like Apollo they're going to go through the same stages I did...

No, I do not believe you arrived at your belief by means of an intellectual exercise.  Nor do I accept your tacit prediction that "smart people" will necessarily come to the same beliefs as you by the same process.  Nor do I consider your belief in hoaxed Apollo missions evidence that you are a "smart person."

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I know that a person who knows the truth and yet prefers not acknowledge it to himself is technically mentally ill.

No, your critics are not mentally ill because they refuse to admit you're right.  If you cannot conceive that a rational alternative exists to your belief, then you do not hold your own beliefs rationally.

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If you had ever been a part of "the real world" you would know that.

I am part of the real world that creates aerospace technology for both general and special uses, including the airliners that carry hundreds of thousands of people a day.  In that world, Apollo is a widely-studied, well-known program accepted properly as fact by the people who have the relevant training and experience.  As long as you're dividing up people into groups, find a group of real scientists -- not self-proclaimed ones like you -- who dismiss Apollo and its findings as a hoax.

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People like you marginalize others because it's an easy way to assassinate their character...

No, you are the only one obsessed with character.  We are simply concerned with whether you can support your claims with a civil, factual argument.  Any damage to your character is done by you.

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I suggest if you find yourself spending your entire life defending a hoax that has been over and done with for 46 years...

Its age doesn't seem to bother you at all.  There would be no need for forums such as this if there were no people such as you.  You are the one dredging up a decades-old historical event that you say no one cares about, and making it the focal point of your personal crusade to change the hearts and minds of the whole planet with your virtuous and infallible character.  If that endeavor cannot stand up to a little scrutiny, then where does that leave you?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #483 on: February 15, 2015, 12:23:42 PM »
Don't quit your day job.

I wouldn't, not on your say-so or advice. I actually quite enjoy my day job.

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One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

No one here is projecting. Most of my questions can be tracked to inconsistencies in your argument and the nature of solar x-rays. You have yet to answer any of those questions.

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My history is of leading, not following. Almost without exception, my positions on such things as Apollo and the 911 false flag start out being marginal, and as time goes on it changes to mainstream belief.

Later in this post you claim a large percentage of people don't care about a 46 year old hoax. It can't be mainstream and a 46 year old hoax that no one cares about. Which is it? 

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My goal in debunking the NASA moon landing hoax is to remove a cornerstone element of a fabricated reality, a fabrication I feel is detrimental to the interests of the human race.

What will happen to the human race if, according to you, the Apollo scam is not exposed? Why is something that is 46 years old so detrimental?

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I have no problem admitting feeling alienated in a restrained and regulated  intellectual environment like this forum that is geared towards staying within certain boundaries in order to form an illusion that intelligent people do not doubt NASA's claims or integrity as a whole.


I'm glad you now see that the forum is a place of intellect. A point we can agree upon.

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Surely you realize that is not an accurate representation. smart people are much more likely to question what they're told and with subject like Apollo they're going to go through the same stages I did..

History is littered with 'smart people' as you can call them, that have questioned what they have told them. In my own field, Einstein questioned Newton, a cornerstone of physics for 200 years, and in doing so revolutionised science. Plank and Bohr questioned the nature of atoms and ushered in quantum mechanics. You couldn't even arrive at an answer that explained the difference between flux and photon energy when applied to dosimetric calculations. Whatever illusion you have, you are not some unrecognised genius shunned by the mainstream, you are a maverick entity that no one is interested in. Your arrogance about your super intelligence does not impress, it only leaves people here laughing at you.

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I think you have to do a lot of moral compromising and rationalization myself, and it undoubtedly leaves you feeling alienated and somewhat guilty.  I know that a person who knows the truth and yet prefers not acknowledge it to himself is technically mentally ill.

So now you are a psychiatrist.

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In the real world there are two opinions concerning Apollo: 1) I don't give a damned, I'm too busy and distracted just trying to survive; or 2) What a freaking' farce. If you had ever been a part of "the real world" you would know that.

I am aware of what the real world looks like, as I hold down a full time job. It's a salaried job, and some weeks I work 60+ hours so I can meet the expectations.

For a lot of people (1) is the case, most people that I know do not care about Apollo, so why do you insist that it has to be exposed as a sham. I don't understand your economic-social postion with your online position.

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People like you marginalize others because it's an easy way to assassinate their character and impinge upon their credibility without effort, but the problem is there are few people in the world who have not been confronted with the words "you're crazy" when they said something exposing a guilty cretin.

Cry me a river.

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It is a weapon nearly as effective as bludgeoning them with the blunt instrument of your stupidity....but I am wondering, do you realize just how unhealthy it is psychologically to actually believe that the belief in conspiracies is the domain of the mentally ill?

So now you are a psychiatrist.

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Oh, and how convenient THAT "diagnosis" is! We live in a world where 99% of the people are totally detached from any grounding in reality, a collective conscious that is manipulated for the good of a very tiny few. And it's a few none of you are part of but willingly serve anyway for what little gravy they let drip off the table onto the floor so you can lick it up. When your usefulness runs out, so will your luck.

Where do you get the 99% figure from, and by whose reckoning or judgement are all these people ungrounded. 

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I have news for you, if you actually believe that the nature of human interactions and interrelations in politics, business, academics, you name it, is not on all levels  to some degree or another steeped in conspiracy, you're not only an idiot, you're nuts.

So now you are a psychiatrist.

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Conspiracy is simply two or more people secretly agreeing to take part in the same endeavor, usually *something that by it's nature needs to be concealed, and it is always at the expense of some other group.

400 000 people?

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I suggest if  you find yourself spending your entire life defending a hoax that has been over and done with for 46 years , a hoax that a large percentage of people now alive don't even care about and in some case don't even know about  anyway, I wouldn't condescend to cast aspersions on anyone else using some derogatory psychobabble pseudo-psychiatric "diagnosis" as a form of cheap character assassination.  .

If people don't care a 46 year old hoax, why are you investing your time in it then? Why should this cornerstone be overturned for the sake of a better humanity if it is not in the collective psyche of humanity? I fail to understand your position.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 01:17:29 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #484 on: February 15, 2015, 12:32:10 PM »
Romulus seems very keen to talk about mental illness for someone who said
I know that psychology is a pseudoscience that is based entirely on opinions that have no basis of reality


I find it interesting that HBs seem to think that we swallow whole the NASA story - as though we did not take responsibility to educate ourselves and understand what has been claimed and why.  Do HBs tell themselves this so they do not have to confront the fact that we have gone through the questioning stage and have come to conclusions diametrically opposed to the conclusions the HBs have drawn?  Because it might mean our experience is valid for the reasons they claim theirs is... And so they might actually be mistaken?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 12:39:16 PM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #485 on: February 15, 2015, 12:35:57 PM »
Romulus seems very keen to talk about mental illness for someone who said
I know that psychology is a pseudoscience that is based entirely on opinions that have no basis of reality

Another inconsistency in his argument. Thanks for that spot. Andromeda, you are a whizz for picking out such details, it has to be said - amongst many other things too  :)
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #486 on: February 15, 2015, 12:38:32 PM »
Romulus seems very keen to talk about mental illness for someone who said
I know that psychology is a pseudoscience that is based entirely on opinions that have no basis of reality

Another inconsistency in his argument. Thanks for that spot. Andromeda, you are a whizz for picking out such details, it has to be said - amongst many other things too  :)

Aw, thank you.  I'm sorry I haven't been around much, but I have enjoyed your posts :)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #487 on: February 15, 2015, 12:43:45 PM »
Aw, thank you.  I'm sorry I haven't been around much, but I have enjoyed your posts :)

Thanks, and we do miss your encyclopedic knowledge of this forum. The number of times you step in with a link to something that was said 5 years ago does amaze us. You are on 666 posts by the way. Move on quickly :)
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #488 on: February 15, 2015, 12:47:59 PM »
Good job I'm not superstitious.

*Falls over a black cat*
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #489 on: February 15, 2015, 12:50:23 PM »
Good job I'm not superstitious.

*Falls over a black cat*

While walking under a ladder, carrying a mirror and accidentally rocking an empty rocking chair. Phew that was close.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #490 on: February 15, 2015, 12:53:35 PM »
NASA is totally unwilling to publish detailed information about the translunar injection trajectories.

He was given several sources and ignored them all.  First Jay directed him to Apollo by the Numbers.  Then he cried "Can you please post the specific translunar injection claimed by NASA", to which I posted the actual data.  He then responded with "What I actually said is that NASA does not publish any detailed information on the translunar injection trajectories. I wasn't referring to books written by propagandists. I want NASA's data so I can use it to prove they lied like they do about nearly everything else."  To this Jay pointed out that Apollo by the Numbers is written by a NASA employee and published by NASA.  I then directed him to this document and ka9q directed him to this document.  He didn't acknowledge any of it and soony afterward flounced.

Romulus, do you care to acknowledge that NASA has published detailed information about the translunar injection trajectories?

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #491 on: February 15, 2015, 01:08:48 PM »
One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

How's that working out for you?

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My history is of leading ,not following. Almost without exception, my positions on such things as Apollo and the 911 false flag start out being marginal, and as time goes on it changes to mainstream belief.

Aaaah the baseless self-aggrandisement rears its head again. Please do tell us which of your positions has become mainstream belief.

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My goal in debunking the NASA moon landing hoax is to remove a cornerstone element of a fabricated reality, a fabrication I feel is detrimental to the interests of the human race..

We're going to get lizards and aliens soon aren't we? You actually haven't yet managed to debunk anything, so your life so far is proving pretty worthless.

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I have no problem admitting feeling alienated in a restrained and regulated  intellectual environment like this forum that is geared towards staying within certain boundaries in order to form an illusion that intelligent people do not doubt NASA's claims or integrity as a whole.

Good. You should indeed feel out of your depth here. You also need to get it through your head that most (if not all) people here have no loyalty towards NASA. I could care less what they do or say. What I am interested in is defending the truth against an assault by morons.

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Surely you realize that is not an accurate representation. smart people are much more likely to question what they're told and with subject like Apollo they're going to go through the same stages I did.

I am very much questioning what I'm being told by you.

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.I think you have to do a lot of moral compromising and rationalization myself, and it undoubtedly leaves you feeling alienated and somewhat guilty.  I know that a person who knows the truth and yet prefers not acknowledge it to himself is technically mentally ill.

How's that working out for you?

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  In the real world there are two opinions concerning Apollo: 1) I don't give a damned, I'm too busy and distracted just trying to survive; or 2) What a freaking' farce. If you had ever been a part of "the real world" you would know that.

There are a lot of people who believe the first one. A tiny tiny number think the second. Those are the sort of people who don't know how to use an apostrophe.

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People like you marginalize others because it's an easy way to assassinate their character and impinge upon their credibility without effort,

I have gone to a considerable amount of trouble, research and hard work to impinge upon the credibility of hoax believers. They are more than capable of assassinating their own character every time they post something monumentally dumb, which is regularly.

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but the problem is there are few people in the world who have not been confronted with the words "you're crazy" when they said something exposing a guilty cretin.

This does not stop ill-informed cretins being crazy.

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It is a weapon nearly as effective as bludgeoning them with the blunt instrument of your stupidity....but I am wondering, do you realize just how unhealthy it is psychologically to actually believe that the belief in conspiracies is the domain of the mentally ill?

I know plenty of very intelligent people with a mental illness. Hoax believers I just regard as cretins.

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     Oh, and how convenient THAT "diagnosis" is! We live in a world where 99% of the people are totally detached from any grounding in reality, a collective conscious that is manipulated for the good of a very tiny few.

Except you, oh exalted one, with your superior intellect.

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And it's a few none of you are part of but willingly serve anyway for what little gravy they let drip off the table onto the floor so you can lick it up. When your usefulness runs out, so will your luck. 

No-one here does this for gravy. Do you really, really, really think all of the people who disagree with you and people like you because there is some kind of personal reward in it? You really are completely deluded if you think people disagree with you for any other reason than because you are completely and utterly wrong.

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I have news for you, if you actually believe that the nature of human interactions and interrelations in politics, business, academics, you name it, is not on all levels  to some degree or another steeped in conspiracy, you're not only an idiot, you're nuts.

Is that the voice of a guilty cretin calling someone who disagrees with you crazy?

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Conspiracy is simply two or more people secretly agreeing to take part in the same endeavor, usually *something that by it's nature needs to be concealed, and it is always at the expense of some other group.

Any proof of a conspiracy over Apollo? At all? Anything?

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I suggest if  you find yourself spending your entire life defending a hoax that has been over and done with for 46 years , a hoax that a large percentage of people now alive don't even care about and in some case don't even know about  anyway, I wouldn't condescend to cast aspersions on anyone else using some derogatory psychobabble pseudo-psychiatric "diagnosis" as a form of cheap character assassination.  .

And yet here you are, defending your beliefs over and over again, abusing people, calling people guilty, casting aspersions, claiming all manner of nonsense without any kind of basis in reality. So far you'v been racist, sexist, homophobic, and all within the confines of a civilised forum. We all know what a deeply unpleasant person you are in less well regulated environments.

We're also all still waiting for you to out us as conspirators - so far you haven't managed to show anyone anything but your lack of knowledge and an ability to copy and paste. When do I get to be exposed by your incisive investigative powers?

You're nothing more than a hypocrite, and you need to take the beam out of your eye.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #492 on: February 15, 2015, 01:24:46 PM »
Oh.  He's back.

Actually, refusal to believe something you know must be true is called "cognitive dissonance," and humans do it all the time.  Whether they're mentally ill or not.  In point of fact, the not-true things many mentally ill people believe, they don't know aren't true.  It's called "delusions" and is a whole different mental process.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Abaddon

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #493 on: February 15, 2015, 02:07:15 PM »
I strongly protest against the use of the word "feminazi" and the numerous ad hominem attacks in Romulus' second post.

Nothing but abuse from him, I see no reason to put up with it (even for the purpose of giving him enough rope).
Strongly disagree. Far better to give him the rope he desires to publicly demonstrate what he really is. And he will. He cannot help himself. He believes so many abhorrent things that he simply has not the self control to prevent himself descending into spittle filled rage.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #494 on: February 15, 2015, 02:14:56 PM »
I strongly protest against the use of the word "feminazi" and the numerous ad hominem attacks in Romulus' second post.

Nothing but abuse from him, I see no reason to put up with it (even for the purpose of giving him enough rope).
Strongly disagree. Far better to give him the rope he desires to publicly demonstrate what he really is. And he will. He cannot help himself. He believes so many abhorrent things that he simply has not the self control to prevent himself descending into spittle filled rage.

I do object to the use of feminazi, but I know you weren't disagreeing with that aspect of the post Abaddon.  :P

I do actually agree with Abaddon on this point, and personally I would like to see his moderation turned off to give him one last chance and a right to reply for a while without moderation. Maybe we'll see him descend into a spittle filled rage and then we can draw a line underneath his presence here. His posting rights are LO's decision of course, and I respect LO's judgement fully.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch