Author Topic: Movie Gravity  (Read 30048 times)

Offline Allan F

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2013, 09:42:04 AM »
I was wondering about the start sequence. Doesn't Tom Hanks "The clock is running" come too early? Shouldn't the lockdown latches and all the arms disconnect before the mission clock starts? Doesn't that clock start at first upward movement?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2013, 11:42:39 AM »
I cry when they come out of radio silence!
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2013, 03:55:07 PM »
I was wondering about the start sequence. Doesn't Tom Hanks "The clock is running" come too early? Shouldn't the lockdown latches and all the arms disconnect before the mission clock starts? Doesn't that clock start at first upward movement?

There's a lot of inaccuracy in the movie when it comes to the details. Yes, the entire launch is altered for dramatic effect. Just off the top of my head, the 'ignitions equence start' announcement is late; in reality the swing arms don't detach in sequence as depicted in the movie; the engines in the movie fire on zero when in reality zero is the moment of liftoff, with the engines having fired a few seconds earlier and achieved steady state, and so on. It's still a damn good sequence though.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2013, 05:43:37 PM »
Another aspect that I thoroughly loved is that the much-maligned members of my profession -- engineers -- finally got their chance to be the heroes. The public saw that working with your mind can be every bit as exciting and important as anything people do.

I'm not holding my breath while waiting for a team of financial analyst to be the heros of a major motion picture.  For some reason that eludes me, the heroic effort in figuring out the value of the common shares held in the ESOP of a private company is not the stuff of popular drama.  The gripping drama of agonizing over what adjustments to make in the financial statements can be quite thrilling, in real life.   Perhaps I need to write a script.   
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Allan F

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2013, 10:57:52 PM »
Haven't you seen "Wall Street"?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Allan F

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2013, 12:42:16 AM »
How much of the launch pad had to be rebuilt between each launch? The first stage exhaust was brutal - both very hot, very chemically active, and enormous pressure.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline raven

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2013, 01:04:51 AM »
Horner's score helped. While almost overwrought, at the same time it conveyed so much of the emotional pull.
One of the few movies that made me cry, and the only one that made me cry tears of joy at the end.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2013, 04:45:17 AM »
I was wondering about the start sequence. Doesn't Tom Hanks "The clock is running" come too early? Shouldn't the lockdown latches and all the arms disconnect before the mission clock starts? Doesn't that clock start at first upward movement?
Yes, as Jason Thompson said, there are many inaccuracies in that sequence. Here are all those I can think of:

The F-1 ignition plume appearance is not accurate; the movie makes them look like CO2 extinguishers because that's exactly what they were. The real startup sequence began with a stream of LOX pouring down followed by an expanding red and black fireball as the hypergolic ignition fluid enters the combustion chamber, immediately followed by the fuel. And they are staggered in pairs at 100 ms intervals, not started simultaneously.

Most of the swing arms retracted simultaneously (and much more quickly) at liftoff except for one S-IC arm that retracted at T-15 sec.

Ignition actually starts at T-8.9 sec; liftoff (and clock starting) actually occurs at T=0.

I didn't see the 1.5 degree tower avoidance yaw maneuver (admittedly this is very subtle).

Cars are visible in the Pad 39A parking lot - for a launch the pad would be completely cleared (the 2nd unit helicopter that captured the background footage flew on a normal workday).

The paint pattern was not correct for Apollo 13.

Mattingly's view of the pad is from the west (launch tower on the left) when he is supposedly parked on the beach east of the pad -- where no one would be allowed during a real launch. And in reality, he was in Houston.

Condensation is seen streaming off the LM adapter, where there were no cryogenic fuels to cool the outside surface.

I don't see ice falling off the S-IVB when I believe it did.

Lovell has his hand on the abort handle at times. I don't think he would have put his hand anywhere near it unless he had decided to abort.

I think the solar illumination angle on the stack after the pitch program starts is incorrect, but I'll have to check that. It should be from the camera's (south) side.

The announcer should have read the actual words of the KSC Public Affairs Officer - it's not like they were hard to obtain.

The engines actually light up only once (admittedly this is artistic license).

The ground call "we see your BPC clear" comes early; the BPC comes off with the launch escape tower. Yet sunlight floods the cabin through the uncovered windows at the right time.

The engine status lights go out normally and light (continuously) when there is an engine problem.

Lovell hits the LES FIRE button to jettison the LES. I think that's for commanding manual LES (not jettison motor) ignition if the sequencer doesn't do it automatically after the translation handle is turned counterclockwise. I think the LES was jettisoned manually by the CDR, but I'd have to look up the correct switch.

The S-II and S-IVB plumes are nearly invisible in space. Just a dim blue glow inside the nozzle.

At the same time, they got an amazing amount right. The CSM hardware, suits and helmets were completely authentic, and the crew is in the correct seats. The right checklists are on the panel, the right program is running on the computer but I'm not sure the 8-ball display is correct (can someone check that?) The F-1 plumes have the dark section from the fuel-rich turbopump exhaust. The F-1 plumes expand and creep up along the tail of the rocket as the ambient air pressure decreases. The roll/pitch program calls and abort mode calls are correct. Lovell turns off the EDS at the correct time. The solid-fuel ullage motors on the S-II fire a split second before the J-2 engines light up.  Certainly no other fictionalized portrayal of an Apollo launch even comes close, not that there are many.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 04:54:56 AM by ka9q »

Offline darren r

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2013, 06:31:13 AM »
Certainly no other fictionalized portrayal of an Apollo launch even comes close, not that there are many.

What about this one? :)

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Offline Echnaton

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2013, 06:13:21 PM »
Haven't you seen "Wall Street"?
They were stock traders and certainly not heros.  Although Gordon Gekko's statement about getting rich enough you don't have to waste time has some resonance. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline ka9q

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2013, 06:24:38 AM »
Certainly no other fictionalized portrayal of an Apollo launch even comes close, not that there are many.

What about this one? :)


Oh man....

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 12:28:09 PM »
I know, dramatic license and all that, the director feels the need to skew some things to introduce tension, but I found the portrayal of Jack Swigert kind of irritating.

Swigert was no less experienced than Mattingly and in fact had specialized in CM systems during his training; he almost certainly knew the workings of the CM better than Mattingly, and was in fact probably one of the best choices to have along if you're dealing with a crippled spacecraft.  He certainly did not "fail" the reentry problem as shown in the film, or any of the other sims they ran after he was moved up to prime crew, for that matter.
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2013, 04:08:52 PM »
Yes, that's classic movie 'let's make the guy who's dead and can't complain about it a bit less good than he really was for dramatic effect'. Swigert was pretty much the best person to have the the CM when the accident took place, and Lovell's line 'when was the last time he was in a simulator?' bugs me because, as backup CMP, he'd have been in the simulator only a few days previously at worst. The whole point of a backup crew is that they're ready to go if needed, after all...
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Offline raven

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 12:30:30 AM »
Yeah, it was a dramatization.
I am so glad I was able to find Lost Moon. Really worth reading.
Still one of my favourite movies mind you, though the CGI was pretty obvious, even back then.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Movie Gravity
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 02:08:55 AM »
I know, dramatic license and all that, the director feels the need to skew some things to introduce tension, but I found the portrayal of Jack Swigert kind of irritating.
Yes, that bugged me too. Not just the "C'mon rookie, park that thing" nonsense but also the yelling match that never happened. These guys were simply too wrapped up in their jobs for that sort of thing.

Part of the problem is that NASA went so far out of their way during its glory years to portray the astronauts as unblemished superhumans that in later years everyone else (including Hollywood) felt obligated to take them down a few notches. I think it would have been much better (and much more interesting) if everyone had simply shown them as they were.

Look how long it took to publish the in-flight intercom tape dumps. They certainly weren't classified for any reason other than to hide the fact that these guys made mistakes, swore, joked, got emotional, and otherwise acted like perfectly normal human beings doing a very unusual job. Nothing they said in private could take away the fact that they did their jobs quite well.