ApolloHoax.net

Off Topic => Other Conspiracy Theories => Topic started by: Zakalwe on October 17, 2013, 05:29:38 AM

Title: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on October 17, 2013, 05:29:38 AM
http://www.space.com/23202-china-moon-rover-december-launch.html

Finally, it looks like someone else is going to soft land on the Moon. I wonder when the woo-woo brigade will start to call "HOAX"?
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: ka9q on October 17, 2013, 05:33:28 AM
Pretty soon, I bet. The obvious resemblance to the Apollo LM will certainly not go unnoticed.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on October 17, 2013, 06:15:00 AM
It's obviously a fake...it's made of tinfoil!

 ::)
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Daggerstab on October 17, 2013, 07:51:36 AM
Given previous experience, before it even leaves the ground. Depending on the particular CTs to which particular conspiracists subscribe, charges of "the data will be faked" may will appear as soon as they become aware of it. Expect it to become more widespread if skeptics start using it to debunk Apollo stuff.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Tedward on October 17, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
Everyone knows that without the right documents, it cannot get through the Van Allen belts.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: theteacher on October 17, 2013, 02:46:08 PM
Everyone knows that without the right documents, it cannot get through the Van Allen belts.
;D
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Noldi400 on October 18, 2013, 01:25:36 AM
I'm just wondering... have any of the HB crowd ever come up with a design of what a lunar lander should look like?  Most of them still seem to be stuck on the old von Braun giant surface-to-surface rocket.

I don't think I've ever seen any of them attempt it, but it sure would be fun picking it apart. Of course, any flaws we pointed out would be taken as evidence that lunar landings are obviously impossible.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on October 18, 2013, 04:09:40 AM
I'm just wondering... have any of the HB crowd ever come up with a design of what a lunar lander should look like?  Most of them still seem to be stuck on the old von Braun giant surface-to-surface rocket.

I don't think I've ever seen any of them attempt it, but it sure would be fun picking it apart. Of course, any flaws we pointed out would be taken as evidence that lunar landings are obviously impossible.

I doubt it. The modus operandi for the majority of HBs that I've come across is to try and pick holes in the evidence (normally based on supposition and errors). They never offer an alternative, probably because to do so would require solid knowledge. If they had solid knowledge, then they'd be able to debunk their own hoax hypothesis.
The exception to this was Patrick Tekeli. Yes he was wildly off the mark, but he appeared to have read and digested a lot of the archives.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: twik on October 21, 2013, 09:56:51 AM
I'll give Patrick credit for actually doing original work, rather magnificent in its own unique weirdness. Also, he was willing to try to defend it. Much more invigorating to debate than the typical "it was HOACKS, see this youtube video proves it" seagull poster.

It seems that the CT community has now "matured" (so to speak) into accepting the "Everything's a Hoax" theory. Absolutely *nothing* is as it seems, and this can be assumed without even looking at the evidence first. We are all living in our own Truman Show.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: ka9q on October 21, 2013, 05:03:37 PM
I'm just wondering... have any of the HB crowd ever come up with a design of what a lunar lander should look like?
Without any infrastructure it's really hard to come up with anything that doesn't look a lot like the Apollo LM (or the Russian LK).

I have thought a bit about how a lander would look if we pursued the goal of reusing it for more than one landing. It could only have a single stage, and it would have to be refueled on the lunar surface, in lunar orbit, or in both places.

I've long thought that our emphasis on reusable launchers was misplaced, though I think SpaceX has as good a chance of anybody of finally making that idea economically practical. Much of the cost of an Apollo mission came from throwing away a perfectly good LM after each landing just because the tanks were empty. We need to figure out how to refuel these spacecraft with propellants made somewhere other than the bottom of the earth's gravity well.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on October 22, 2013, 02:36:40 AM
I've long thought that our emphasis on reusable launchers was misplaced, though I think SpaceX has as good a chance of anybody of finally making that idea economically practical. Much of the cost of an Apollo mission came from throwing away a perfectly good LM after each landing just because the tanks were empty. We need to figure out how to refuel these spacecraft with propellants made somewhere other than the bottom of the earth's gravity well.

The engine bell had an ablative surface instead of being actively cooled by the fuel. So the engine would need to be changed, as well as allowing refuelling. And there's the rub...doing all of that increased the weight, which increases the fuel load needed to get it off the ground in the first place. Which means that you need a bigger booster....
Expensive as it was, it was probably cheaper to implement a "throw-away" policy. Certainly to hit Kennedy's timescale the designers had no other choice. It had to be as simple and as light as possible otherwise they'd never have done in within the decade.
Fast. Cheap. Safe. Pick any two, but you can't have all three. A fast, cheap program won't be safe. A safe, cheap program won't be cheap. And so on.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: ka9q on October 22, 2013, 03:12:23 AM
So the engine would need to be changed, as well as allowing refuelling.
Well...yes, though a different engine design could be used.

And the batteries would have to be recharged (or, more likely, solar panels added) and the O2 and water tanks refilled, etc, etc.
Quote
Expensive as it was, it was probably cheaper to implement a "throw-away" policy. Certainly to hit Kennedy's timescale the designers had no other choice. It had to be as simple and as light as possible otherwise they'd never have done in within the decade.
Oh, no question. But that design philosophy had already become a problem even before the Apollo program was over, considering the work required to modify the LM to support the 3-day stays of the J-missions.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Bob B. on October 22, 2013, 09:56:05 AM
If we were to have a reusable LM, I see no reason it's initial launch would have to be part of a crewed mission.  Launching it separately would remove some of the weight restrictions and allow for a bigger and more capable LM to be built.  And the cost of the extra launch would be offset by the reusability factor.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on December 14, 2013, 11:55:53 AM
Well, they've successfully landed on the Moon, and congratulations to the Chinese space effort.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25356603


I shall now sit back and wait for the loons to declare it a fake. I wonder will Vincent McConnell pop up again? He seemed to have a particular flea up his ass about the Chinese efforts...
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Chew on December 15, 2013, 12:07:35 AM
I've already seen one "there are no stars" comment.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Obviousman on December 15, 2013, 01:02:37 AM
<HB Mode ON>
Of course it's faked. The US and Russia, however, won't blow the whistle because China didn't blow the whilstle they faked their missions; if they did point out it was faked, China would do the same to them. Since none of them want to lose face, they keep silent about each others fakery.
<HB Mode OFF>
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: LunarOrbit on December 15, 2013, 09:45:01 AM
Did it land close enough to any of the Apollo sites that the rover could pay them a visit?
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on December 15, 2013, 10:26:38 AM
Did it land close enough to any of the Apollo sites that the rover could pay them a visit?

Nowhere near. It landed in the Sinus Iridium. The nearest Apollo site would A15 at Hadley Rille, roughly 1000Km away.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: gwiz on December 15, 2013, 10:35:25 AM
Nowhere near. It landed in the Sinus Iridium. The nearest Apollo site would A15 at Hadley Rille, roughly 1000Km away.
It actually landed in the Mare Imbrium, but that doesn't alter the situation re other sites.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: LunarOrbit on December 15, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Nowhere near.

Well that's disappointing.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Allan F on December 15, 2013, 11:19:33 AM
That's a 200 day drive, if it goes non-stop. Doubt it would last that long. What's the longest endurance of an off-world rover? Distance and time?
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: LunarOrbit on December 15, 2013, 11:38:10 AM
The Opportunity rover has driven almost 40km since 2004. So I doubt 1000km is a realistic goal for the Chinese lunar rover.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on December 15, 2013, 01:18:51 PM
Nowhere near. It landed in the Sinus Iridium. The nearest Apollo site would A15 at Hadley Rille, roughly 1000Km away.
It actually landed in the Mare Imbrium, but that doesn't alter the situation re other sites.

Yes, most websites are saying Sinus Iridium but the location of the landing site is  44.1260°N 19.5014°W. Thats the Mare Imbrium, and the nearest named crater is Laplace F.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Allan F on December 15, 2013, 01:30:45 PM
The Opportunity rover has driven almost 40km since 2004. So I doubt 1000km is a realistic goal for the Chinese lunar rover.

Impressive.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Noldi400 on December 15, 2013, 03:57:28 PM
That's a 200 day drive, if it goes non-stop. Doubt it would last that long. What's the longest endurance of an off-world rover? Distance and time?

According to Leonard David's article on space.com, Jade Rabbit is designed to function for 12 months. 
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: dwight on December 15, 2013, 05:41:15 PM
I couldn't help but notice how today's photos show non-parallel shadows. That raises an intersting question to the HB crowd who want the Yutu to discredit Apollo. Also where the hell is the blast crater??
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: gwiz on December 16, 2013, 09:12:01 AM
The Opportunity rover has driven almost 40km since 2004. So I doubt 1000km is a realistic goal for the Chinese lunar rover.
Lunokhod 2 went slightly further, but in a much shorter time.  The lunar environment is probably a lot more hostile than Mars for a rover, due to the greater temperature range and the abrasive lunar dust.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Zakalwe on December 16, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
Here's footage of the descent and touchdown



Ohh, there's no stars. And there's no blast crater.

 ::) ::)
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Echnaton on December 16, 2013, 06:10:29 PM
Here's footage of the descent and touchdown


Nice video.  I really enjoyed the self similar look of the random pattern of craters on surface.  As small craters became big craters  during the descent the even smaller ones came into view to replace them.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: ka9q on December 16, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
You beat me to it! I was also going to say that this was a beautiful illustration of the fractal nature of the surface. It does make it hard to know your altitude until the dust starts blowing around.

And there's no visible plume.

And no crater.

I can't wait to hear what Hunchbacked, Jarrah White and all their sycophants have to say about this...
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: carpediem on December 17, 2013, 10:22:03 PM
I can't wait to hear what Hunchbacked, Jarrah White and all their sycophants have to say about this...

https://www.youtube.com/user/hunchbacked/discussion
Quote
hunchbacked
1 day ago
 
+Kris de Valle
There is no chinese rover on the moon.

Looks like HB is going for it's a fake too.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Dalhousie on December 22, 2013, 11:47:42 PM
I'm just wondering... have any of the HB crowd ever come up with a design of what a lunar lander should look like?  Most of them still seem to be stuck on the old von Braun giant surface-to-surface rocket.

If you wanted a retro aesthetic you could chose between a giant streamlined tail-sitter (a la Tintin, Disney, Destination Moon, and a hundred SF movies, programs and book/magazine covers) or an early von Braun (giant unstreamlined tail-sitter).  So maybe they really do expect something like these

http://www.yesterland.com/moonrocket.html

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Scientist-Wernher-Von-Braun-with-Model-of-Moon-Rocket-He-Designed-Posters_i5170001_.htm

http://er.jsc.nasa.gov/seh/lunarlan.html

http://gamedesignreviews.com/scrapbook/tintin-on-the-moon/

http://horrornews.net/48665/film-review-destination-moon-1950/

Of course if they were clever (an oxymoron, I know), they could use a horizontal lander, which is an excellent configuration for large landers with heavy payloads.

http://timzero4.deviantart.com/art/SPACE-1999-EAGLE-BLENDER-3D-176507235

Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Luke Pemberton on April 07, 2014, 02:06:48 PM
I couldn't help but notice how today's photos show non-parallel shadows. That raises an intersting question to the HB crowd who want the Yutu to discredit Apollo. Also where the hell is the blast crater??

Sorry to resurrect a 4 month old post, but hasn't He Who Shall Not Be Named used the Chang'e 3 data to 'discredit' Apollo, where the former shows no blast crater and parallel shadows. Invoke one argument for Apollo but not the other. Geeze!
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: bknight on July 29, 2015, 07:01:58 PM
I loved the YouTube video by BertieSlack .
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: BazBear on July 29, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
I couldn't help but notice how today's photos show non-parallel shadows. That raises an intersting question to the HB crowd who want the Yutu to discredit Apollo. Also where the hell is the blast crater??

Sorry to resurrect a 4 month old post, but hasn't He Who Shall Not Be Named used the Chang'e 3 data to 'discredit' Apollo, where the former shows no blast crater and parallel shadows. Invoke one argument for Apollo but not the other. Geeze!
Ya gotta love the a la carte approach to conspiracy theorism! The handiest part is, if later on if HWSNBN wants to discredit Chang'e 3, I suspect he'll have no qualms about using NASA data to do so! Win-Win! :o
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: bknight on August 01, 2015, 04:35:34 PM
I couldn't help but notice how today's photos show non-parallel shadows. That raises an intersting question to the HB crowd who want the Yutu to discredit Apollo. Also where the hell is the blast crater??

Sorry to resurrect a 4 month old post, but hasn't He Who Shall Not Be Named used the Chang'e 3 data to 'discredit' Apollo, where the former shows no blast crater and parallel shadows. Invoke one argument for Apollo but not the other. Geeze!
HWSNBN(good coin) used the rover's particle x-ray spectrometer readings indicating a different composition than that of Apollo moon rocks.  I won't print the percentages but they are there to look at.  I've not done a comparison, but maybe someone else has looked at the comparison and can post results.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Dalhousie on August 11, 2015, 05:27:11 AM
I couldn't help but notice how today's photos show non-parallel shadows. That raises an intersting question to the HB crowd who want the Yutu to discredit Apollo. Also where the hell is the blast crater??

Sorry to resurrect a 4 month old post, but hasn't He Who Shall Not Be Named used the Chang'e 3 data to 'discredit' Apollo, where the former shows no blast crater and parallel shadows. Invoke one argument for Apollo but not the other. Geeze!
HWSNBN(good coin) used the rover's particle x-ray spectrometer readings indicating a different composition than that of Apollo moon rocks.  I won't print the percentages but they are there to look at.  I've not done a comparison, but maybe someone else has looked at the comparison and can post results.

He expects rocks 1000 km away from the nearest Apollo site to have the same composition?
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: bknight on August 11, 2015, 07:34:08 AM
In his perverted mind, the fact that a difference exist "proves" his contention that Apollo "was" a hoax.  Only critical evaluation of the data would allow for differences to exist.  From listening to many videos, not just YT, I have the understanding Oxygen isotope ratios is similar.  I'm not sure the lander had the ability to measure this commonality.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: Dalhousie on August 12, 2015, 04:37:01 AM
In his perverted mind, the fact that a difference exist "proves" his contention that Apollo "was" a hoax.  Only critical evaluation of the data would allow for differences to exist.  From listening to many videos, not just YT, I have the understanding Oxygen isotope ratios is similar.  I'm not sure the lander had the ability to measure this commonality.

Yutu carries a APX, so will provide whole rock chemsitry data only.  There should be a diversity of compositions, as the landing site is close to the  boundary between high and low Ti mare basalts, and there is highland material not that far away.  There have been a couple of papers, I will see if I can find them when I am next at a good library (the only Yutu paper I have is the very nice one on the GPR).  There is also an IR spectrometer, providing mineralogy.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: BertieSlack on January 24, 2016, 02:44:49 PM
I loved the YouTube video by BertieSlack .

Thanks, but it pretty much wrote itself. There's some interesting Chang'e 3 news news from La-La Land. The moon hoax theory's champion idiot, Expattaffy1, has just claimed that Chang'e 3 was faked...........by NASA. Apparently this was done to trick the world into believing that landing on the moon is possible at all.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: bknight on January 24, 2016, 02:52:52 PM
I loved the YouTube video by BertieSlack .

Thanks, but it pretty much wrote itself. There's some interesting Chang'e 3 news news from La-La Land. The moon hoax theory's champion idiot, Expattaffy1, has just claimed that Chang'e 3 was faked...........by NASA. Apparently this was done to trick the world into believing that landing on the moon is possible at all.
I haven't seen this one, but it would fit his perverted half-mind(thanks to Abaddon).
ETA:
Are you still thinking of a video concerning the metadata information?
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: BertieSlack on January 24, 2016, 03:05:10 PM
Are you still thinking of a video concerning the metadata information?

I've got a video in production that will mention it. I'd like to get your opinion before I upload, so I'll post it unlisted when it's ready. I should be posting a quick video about Taffy's Chang'e 3 claim tonight.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: bknight on January 24, 2016, 04:29:56 PM
Are you still thinking of a video concerning the metadata information?

I've got a video in production that will mention it. I'd like to get your opinion before I upload, so I'll post it unlisted when it's ready. I should be posting a quick video about Taffy's Chang'e 3 claim tonight.
Let me know, you have my address.
Title: Re: When will the loons start to claim that Chang’e 3 is a hoax?
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 05, 2016, 02:51:37 AM
He expects rocks 1000 km away from the nearest Apollo site to have the same composition?

So wait, China finds a rock type that is slightly different to the Apollo ones and this is proof that there aren't any Apollo ones for them to work out a difference?

And NASA did this? Man are they getting sloppy...