Author Topic: Good books about the moon landings hoax?  (Read 341788 times)

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #480 on: September 20, 2014, 08:52:52 AM »
Aaaand seeing as Jock isn't responding yet, let's pick out the first mistake I could be bothered to pay attention to in Rene's meisterwerk.

He claims AS12-49-7278 does not show Conrad to have a camera in Alan Bean's visor reflection of him.

Even the photograph on the cover of his stupid book shows the shadow of that chest mounted camera in the reflection. The high resolution version couldn't be clearer.

See how this works? Ralph Rene lied in his book in the first few pages, just like you lied about playing golf with Armstrong, Collins and Aldrin. We can keep going this going as long as want, but I'd back away and play to your more natural audience of gullible idiots instead.

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #481 on: September 20, 2014, 10:25:46 AM »
...which NASA have never explained.

NASA typically doesn't respond to hoax claims.  The claims are so ludicrous that they don't warrant a reaction from them.  Others, however, have completely debunked all of Ralph Rene's nonsense. 

Offline frenat

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #482 on: September 20, 2014, 10:38:52 AM »
http://www.clavius.org/Rene-NASA-Mooned-America.pdf , if you must.


This book is magnificent.  It has nearly 200 pages all of them containing major discrepancies found in the so called Moon Landings which NASA have never explained.   Why they don't just admit it was a Hoax as there is no doubt after reading this book that it was.  I am going to send Rene a copy of my book to see what he makes of it Jockndoris

So, in other words, you are determined to prove
1. you are unable to do even basic research (Rene has been dead for a while and EVERY claim of his fails to stand up to scrutiny),
2. you are delusional, and
3. you are a troll. 

Consider those proven.  Congrats.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 10:58:52 AM by frenat »
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Offline Andromeda

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #483 on: September 20, 2014, 10:44:10 AM »
Given that Jockndoris claims to have long conversations with ghosts, I don't suppose Rene's death poses an issue for him.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Dr_Orpheus

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #484 on: September 20, 2014, 10:57:41 AM »
Given that Jockndoris claims to have long conversations with ghosts, I don't suppose Rene's death poses an issue for him.

Do you think Rene or Kaysing's ghost was impersonating Armstrong?  What steps did he use to verify that the ghost in question actually was Neil Armstrong?

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #485 on: September 20, 2014, 11:11:57 AM »
Do you think Rene or Kaysing's ghost was impersonating Armstrong?  What steps did he use to verify that the ghost in question actually was Neil Armstrong?

He was wearing Armstrong's pants.  No, really.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline frenat

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #486 on: September 20, 2014, 11:24:11 AM »
Well, if there's anything we've learned from Ghostbusters it is that most ghosts are just floating torsos.  Pants?  Pfft!
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #487 on: September 20, 2014, 11:29:14 AM »
...all of them containing major discrepancies...

The people at Clavius, whom you admit are experts, proved how incapable you were of identifying discrepancies in an aerospace engineering project.

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...which NASA have never explained.

The explanation is Rene's case is the same as the explanation in your case -- neither one of you knows the first thing about space engineering.  All his claims are based on assumptions and misconceptions.  Yours too -- you lied through your teeth about getting a physics degree at St Andrews, and no ghost can save you from that fraud.

Here's how credible Rene's claims were.  NASA was set to pay engineering James Oberg $15,000 to write a book addressing those claims.  But when the story was picked up by the media, there was a huge outpouring of criticism from American taxpayers against NASA for spending their money to address such obvious nonsense.  The public backlash was so great NASA canceled the project.

Oberg, however, continued to write the book on his own.  In his debate with Rene, one of the "discrepancies" came up -- namely, the photo of astronaut Mike Collins in his Gemini space suit on a black background, which appears as the frontispiece of Collins' book Carrying the Fire.  The same photo appears later in the book, with the background intact (the inside of the KC-135) and Collins' caption, "The zero-g aircraft.  Ugh."  Rene, in his book, claimed Collins was trying to pass off the frontispiece as an actual photo taken in space.

Of course Collins claims no such thing.   Rene just got it in his addled head that this is why Collins printed it.  We all pointed this out to him.  But Rene stood firm and upped the ante:  he claimed his edition of the book made the claim.  Well, between us all at Bad Astronomy, we had every edition of the Collins book that had ever been printed.  But Rene stood firmer.  When Oberg offered him $10,000 for the alleged smoking-gun copy of the book, Rene ran away.

It's not surprising that a liar and a charlatan of such magnitude would be your hero, Burns.

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Why they don't just admit it was a Hoax as there is no doubt after reading this book that it was.

Because the vast majority of people are not idiots, laughed at this book, and realized it for the dreck it is.  There may be no doubt in your mind, but I've amply demonstrated that your doubt has no toehold in reality.

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I am going to send Rene a copy of my book to see what he makes of it Jockndoris

He's dead.  Let me know how that works out for you.  And since I'm quite familiar with how Rene behaved when he was alive, I can't wait to see you lie through your teeth about meeting his ghost too.

From that familiarity I can tell you exactly how Rene would have responded to you book:  he would have accused you of stealing his ideas and then ranted about how you're taking his business away from him.  That's pretty much how Rene responded to any hoax claimant that wasn't him.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #488 on: September 20, 2014, 11:55:39 AM »
NASA typically doesn't respond to hoax claims.  The claims are so ludicrous that they don't warrant a reaction from them.  Others, however, have completely debunked all of Ralph Rene's nonsense.

In a rare move, NASA actually decided to respond to this book and contracted Jim Oberg to write the rebuttal.  NASA got so many letters and phone calls objecting to the expenditure of money on such obvious nonsense that NASA apologized and withdrew the contract.  Oberg wrote the book on his own, but has not yet published it.

Rene self-published his book in the mid 1990s.  And I mean self-published, as in he photocopied every copy and bound it himself on his little spiral-binder.   After about 7 or 8 years, Rene still took orders for the book, but would take months to deliver it.  He said he never forgave David Percy for stealing all his business, and refused to do interviews if any other hoax claimant was invited.  The book quickly faded so far into obscurity that someone had to preserve it, if only to remember what Rene's claims actually were.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #489 on: September 20, 2014, 12:13:01 PM »
Aaaand seeing as Jock isn't responding yet, let's pick out the first mistake I could be bothered to pay attention to in Rene's meisterwerk.

I got you beat.  Page d (i.e., before the book even starts) is Rene's lie about Collins claiming the frontispiece was a picture of him during his Gemini 8 mission.

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He claims AS12-49-7278 does not show Conrad to have a camera in Alan Bean's visor reflection of him.

Rene wasn't the most visually observant.  I actually got the impression his vision was quite poor about the time he wrote this book.

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See how this works? Ralph Rene lied in his book in the first few pages...

And keeps lying.  There's another one before the Conrad camera claim.

The Gemini "fireproof antenna" takes about five minutes to debunk, for someone familiar with space operations.  Rene notes the VHF antenna on the landed spacecraft and notes (correctly) that there's no way it would withstand re-entry.  He correctly notes that it's used only for locating the spacecraft, but then inexplicably reports (citing no source) that NASA claims the divers attached this antenna.

A minute's perusal of the Gemini familiarization materials NASA gave out to journalists and such confirms that the antenna is part of the spacecraft and is extended automatically after landing.  During re-entry it's kept protected inside the spacecraft structure.

Hoax authors always pretend they know what they're talking about, and they always lie.  Burns has done both, just as Rene did.

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We can keep going this going as long as want, but I'd back away and play to your more natural audience of gullible idiots instead.

Agreed.  Rene was most upset that he lost his audience of gullible idiots to other authors and had to make his living doing something else.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #490 on: September 20, 2014, 12:16:17 PM »
From that familiarity I can tell you exactly how Rene would have responded to you book:  he would have accused you of stealing his ideas and then ranted about how you're taking his business away from him.  That's pretty much how Rene responded to any hoax claimant that wasn't him.

So isn't that another claim from a certain young man from the Antipodes that fails to hold up to scrutiny, then?  Doesn't he consider himself in intellectual descent from Rene (for a given definition of "intellectual," of course!) despite the fact that Rene clearly would have hated him, too?
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #491 on: September 20, 2014, 12:39:57 PM »
So isn't that another claim from a certain young man from the Antipodes that fails to hold up to scrutiny, then?  Doesn't he consider himself in intellectual descent from Rene (for a given definition of "intellectual," of course!) despite the fact that Rene clearly would have hated him, too?

That species of Antipodeus Wrecks would have been perfectly okay, because he did the proper thing by worshiping Rene.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #492 on: September 20, 2014, 12:57:19 PM »
This isn't Jock's first hoax thread.

Nor is this the first thread in which Neil Burns utterly refuses to provide evidence, answer questions, or reconcile his claims with the evidence.

And I don't mean the ghost claims.  I mean the claim that he golfed at Navy Marine with Neil Armstrong, and the claim that his physics professor at St Andrews gave him a degree for a brief paper allegedly showing how Apollo was technically impossible.

Nor is it relevant that some other posters here don't consider technical and historical accuracy either interesting or compelling.  At Apollohoax.net they are, and if that's where you're going to post then that's the kind of discussion that's going to ensue.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Jockndoris

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #493 on: September 20, 2014, 01:58:34 PM »
Do you think Rene or Kaysing's ghost was impersonating Armstrong?  What steps did he use to verify that the ghost in question actually was Neil Armstrong?

He was wearing Armstrong's pants.  No, really.
Well done JayUtah you got that one right first time!  But of course you have read the book!!  He was wearing golfers shorts just like mine.  Jockndoris   

Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #494 on: September 20, 2014, 02:09:04 PM »
Well done JayUtah you got that one right first time!  But of course you have read the book!!  He was wearing golfers shorts just like mine.  Jockndoris   

That's a really stupid way of proving someone's identity.  You're a bad writer, and you should feel bad.

Note that I expect him to completely ignore this post unless he can twist it into being positive about his book.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates