Author Topic: Good books about the moon landings hoax?  (Read 341583 times)

Offline skeptic_UK

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #345 on: September 17, 2014, 09:00:17 PM »
Then sit there and contemplate how you aren't as clever as you thought you were  ;D

Smugness will not avail you.  You aren't as good an author as you think you are.  You aren't a physicist of any sort.  And you certainly aren't as good an actor as you seem to believe.

Well you caught me. I'm a Software Engineer not a Physicist.

Offline skeptic_UK

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #346 on: September 17, 2014, 09:05:58 PM »
well you think I'm a 70-odd year old accountant.

The only person here who's said anything about the author's age is you.

Check post 183. Then sit there and contemplate how you aren't as clever as you thought you were  ;D

I stand corrected.  How fortunate I am that you handled that with so much maturity. [/sarcasm]

You're welcome.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #347 on: September 17, 2014, 10:40:21 PM »
Methinks he doest protest too much!

No user found on an internet forum squirms, wriggles and protests their innocence more than a sock-puppet who has been rumbled!!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline beedarko

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #348 on: September 17, 2014, 10:42:07 PM »
Well you caught me. I'm a Software Engineer not a Physicist.

I think you're just another Brit with a severe case of America envy. 

Standard.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #349 on: September 17, 2014, 11:08:42 PM »
It simply doesn't matter if they're the same person or not.  What matters is that the "content" of the book is ludicrous, inaccurate, and flat-out impossible.  According to someone whose opinion I trust, it's badly written, too.  No evidence has been presented for the book's claims that is independently verifiable.  If a person who isn't the author enjoys reading it, that person is clearly lacking in critical judgement.  If they slowly enjoyed it over the course of a weekend, they're not a very good reader, either.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #350 on: September 17, 2014, 11:23:47 PM »
Well you caught me. I'm a Software Engineer not a Physicist.

Well I could test you on that score too, if it were relevant.  What is relevant, however, is Neil Burns professed expertise in Quick Basic writing accounting programs -- "Some of those programs are still being used."   Nice try at creating a credible alter ego, but it's still too close.

You really are bad at this.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #351 on: September 18, 2014, 12:04:07 AM »
It simply doesn't matter if they're the same person or not.

It doesn't as long as we can extend the discussion beyond, "Why are you picking on this guy?  I thought the book was really entertaining and nicely done."  Having a sock puppet validate your work for the same reasons you think it's significant validates that criterion.  Conveying the impression that's what many people want to talk about when you're the "many people" is fundamentally dishonest.

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What matters is that the "content" of the book is ludicrous, inaccurate, and flat-out impossible.

Oh, but it's "entertaining."  "Quite a good read."

We know Jockndoris is Neil Burns, the author.  After lying about it for a while, he came clean.  I've been trying to have a discussion about the factual correctness of the work, but it appears its author (whether that's also Skeptic_UK or not) wants to adopt a warm-fuzzy love-fest approach.  That's not what we do here.

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No evidence has been presented for the book's claims that is independently verifiable.

But it's "entertaining."  "A good read."  Whether under the ultimately redeemed Jockndoris persona or ostensibly under his new fan persona, none of the advocates of this book are willing to discuss it as putative fact.  The book itself says that if you don't believe in ghosts, keep passing it around until you find someone who does.  The author has no intention of defending its veracity.  He only wants positive feedback from people predisposed to believe it.

If he doesn't understand why I and others find that distasteful and immoral, then we have insufficient common ground.

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If a person who isn't the author enjoys reading it, that person is clearly lacking in critical judgement.

But that person thinks it's "entertaining;" "a good read."  And he doesn't understand why we insist on evaluating it according to criteria he doesn't feel matter.  It's that utter disregard for truth, suspiciously shared by two recently active posters, that raise questions of identity.  And the questions of identity drive questions of whether the present criticism is appropriate.  Are those questions relevant?  Only as far as the argument insists that we have to consider the two personas to be independent agents supporting each other.

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If they slowly enjoyed it over the course of a weekend, they're not a very good reader, either.

Not weekend -- a week.  In my more literary moods I could devour a 400-page novel in three days.  If it takes someone a week to read 60 folio pages, I have to doubt his reading comprehension.  Or his sincerity; it may be that someone wants us to think this book is worth savoring page by page like that.  It really isn't.  I don't want hopelessly pixelated travelogue diagrams.  I don't want paragraphs of text describing how some maid had folded his clothes.  I don't want page after page of self-indulgent dreck.  None of that is interesting or entertaining.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #352 on: September 18, 2014, 01:24:15 AM »
Heck, if I didn't have anything else to do (like parenting, for example!), I could read a 400-page novel in a day.  I think I still managed Skin Game that quickly, and it's longer.  Of course, my D&D group missed that day, so I had time out of the house without the baby to get it done in.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline skeptic_UK

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #353 on: September 18, 2014, 04:48:08 AM »
If they slowly enjoyed it over the course of a weekend, they're not a very good reader, either.

So you're insulting my literacy skills? That's grown up isn't it. You always know when someone's argument is thin when they start to attack you personally.

Well you caught me. I'm a Software Engineer not a Physicist.

Well I could test you on that score too, if it were relevant.  What is relevant, however, is Neil Burns professed expertise in Quick Basic writing accounting programs -- "Some of those programs are still being used."   Nice try at creating a credible alter ego, but it's still too close.

You really are bad at this.

I actually almost became an Accountant too. I guess I should have foreseen this pointless argument and done something else at University. Not sure how whatever Neil Burns does is relevant to who I am but you seem intent on mapping everything I post onto his life no matter how unlikely it seems to fit?

Methinks he doest protest too much!

No user found on an internet forum squirms, wriggles and protests their innocence more than a sock-puppet who has been rumbled!!

Excuse me for not liking the fact a bunch of random people call me a liar for no other reason that I chose to disagree with them? It's sort of cute how you all defend each other though. Mob mentality. 1 guy mentions I'm a sockpuppet and you all jump in with the same disregard for minor things like, I don't know... proof?. You even leave your manners at the door in the rush to judge.

Well you caught me. I'm a Software Engineer not a Physicist.

I think you're just another Brit with a severe case of America envy. 

Standard.


I'm not even sure what that means? or how the hell you got there from the fact I posted mentioning how I liked a random book. In fact, why even mention nationalities at all?

Ego much? While we're at it please explain what I'm suppose to be envious of?

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #354 on: September 18, 2014, 05:07:38 AM »
It simply doesn't matter if they're the same person or not. 

Ultimately of course it does not, as the book will wind up in the dustbin. Probably mostly remembered or evidenced by this discussion, as long as it remains available. 

What is evident though is that the author's and skeptic_uk's styles are remarkably similar in the backhanded way of promoting something purported to be a factual account, yet each of them knows is fully made up and of no intellectual value.  They are so similar that it would be difficult to determine if they exchanged accounts.  And really, why would anyone expect an author who makes up such obvious junk to have any compunction about using sock puppets to promote himself.  Given all this, the best conclusion is that they are the same person.  So skeptic_UK if you are truly not Neil Burns, you are cooperating with him in such a way that the difference is trivial.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #355 on: September 18, 2014, 05:14:50 AM »
no other reason that I chose to disagree with them?

Once again you miss the point.  The issue here is your uncritical promotion of a trash pamphlet in which the author attempts to undermine a significant accomplishment of mankind. One that many of my neighbors participated in.  People  you and he are inferring were dupes on the basis of the testimony of a ghost.    If you want to discuss the book, then by all means do so, but whining about your mistreatment is getting tedious and only reinforces the belief that you are a sock puppet.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline skeptic_UK

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #356 on: September 18, 2014, 05:16:09 AM »
It simply doesn't matter if they're the same person or not. 

Ultimately of course it does not, as the book will wind up in the dustbin. Probably mostly remembered or evidenced by this discussion, as long as it remains available. 

What is evident though is that the author's and skeptic_uk's styles are remarkably similar in the backhanded way of promoting something purported to be a factual account, yet each of them knows is fully made up and of no intellectual value.  They are so similar that it would be difficult to determine if they exchanged accounts.  And really, why would anyone expect an author who makes up such obvious junk to have any compunction about using sock puppets to promote himself.  Given all this, the best conclusion is that they are the same person.  So skeptic_UK if you are truly not Neil Burns, you are cooperating with him in such a way that the difference is trivial.

So now I COULD be someone else. Progress at least.

I wanted to be complimentary about the book as I enjoyed it. I don't see what's wrong with that? have you never gone out of your way to give a product or person a nice review when you liked what you bought?

I hope you don't go around Amazon posting the 'OMG HE'S A SOCKPUPPET BURN HIM' shtick to every review that's overly positive about a product you disliked.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #357 on: September 18, 2014, 05:50:21 AM »
So you're insulting my literacy skills? That's grown up isn't it. You always know when someone's argument is thin when they start to attack you personally.
No one is insulting your literacy, its your comprehension that is in question. You're so busy playing the victim role, and being a sockpuppet apologist for your alter-ego, you fail to understand that you are being questioned on the factual accuracy of the book. No-one here gives a fat rats arse whether or not you found it "entertaining" or thought it was "a good read".

I actually almost became an Accountant too.
Tell it to someone who cares.

Excuse me for not liking the fact a bunch of random people call me a liar for no other reason that I chose to disagree with them?
No one is calling you a liar because you choose to disagree with them. You are being called a liar because you are a liar. You have been rumbled as the sockpuppet of Neil Burns, and are denying it.   

It's sort of cute how you all defend each other though. Mob mentality. 1 guy mentions I'm a sockpuppet and you all jump in with the same disregard for minor things like, I don't know... proof?. You even leave your manners at the door in the rush to judge.
One guy mentioned it perhaps, but most of us tumbled to it on August 28 when you posted as your  JocknDoris persona about your book (which you actually didn't fess up to writing) less than 48 hours after you, under your skeptic_UK persona, opened the thread.

You must think we came down in the last shower of rain. The fact is that many of the users here have dealt with the masters of sock-puppetry, such as the late Patrick "of a thousand names" Tekeli. You're just an amateur at this game; a lightweight, and not a very good one at that!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #358 on: September 18, 2014, 05:53:47 AM »
I wanted to be complimentary about the book as I enjoyed it.

Yes you've said that.  Then started to whine about how we discussed and dismissed your reasons for enjoying it.  You need no approval from us, but we are here to discuss Apollo and Apollo hoax theories, theorists, believers and assorted uncritical acceptance of the like.  Since you voluntarily came here and entered your preference and reasons into the discussion, they have been a topic of discussion. 

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So now I COULD be someone else. Progress at least.
If you think so.  But no one ever suggested you are not who you are.  We simply think you maintain multiple logins on this forum. 

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I hope you
Its good to live in hope, isn't it.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:34:13 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #359 on: September 18, 2014, 08:05:14 AM »
skeptic_UK, I don't give a damn if you're the same person as jockndoris or not. you could be the queen of sheba for all I care. The point that you are so desperately avoiding is that your statement that 'it is impossible to know if it is true or not' is manifestly untrue.

Even leaving aside the question of belief in ghosts, this forum is populated by people who are professional aerospace engineers, people who have actually met neil Armstrong in non-ghost form, and people who are sufficiently familiar with the field to know that the statements made in the book do not in the least tally with any actual facts regarding either aerospace or the person of Neil Armstrong. This has been laid out in detail over several pages on this thread, and you insist on ignoring it. Why?

If you are not in fact another sock puppet, why do you not deal with the substance of those arguments rather than (or even in addition to) wasting everyone's time complaining about your perceived mistreatement?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain