Apollo Discussions > The Hoax Theory

Apollo 11 Flag

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jr Knowing:
During the Apollo 11 mission the American flag is oriented one particular way in all the photos, film, and TV coverage during the EVA and post EVA. it is positioned facing the TV camera which is set up away from the LM. It is angled so the light catches the entire flag. You can see this clearly in the DAC footage here (2:50 onwards)  https://youtube.com/watch?v=KdhBPxO0Ks4
You can also see the same orientation post EVA here in Apollo magazine 37/R photos. (ie  photos 5471- 5473)  https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums/72157658638144538

Having said this, there is one piece of film footage that shows the flag rotated in the opposite direction. The flag is now oriented so the whole flag can catch the light from this filming position of the LM window. The footage lasts for about 40 seconds and is broken up into 4 separate pans. It is on one of the DAC films. The footage runs from about the 25 second mark to 1:35. The best view is the 45 second mark.  https://youtube.com/watch?v=48lpMNf8nKc

My question is how is this possible? Two hours post EVA Aldrin communicates to ground control stating they are using up the left over film. The photos taken post EVA show the flag in the correct position yet somehow on this short film footage the flag is rotated the other way (to make a better picture?) Short of them test firing the RCS's ten- fifteen minutes before lift off and causing the flag to move (to a convenient well lit position), I don't see how this could happen. Even if this did happen with the test fire, why would they wait until literally the last minute to film? They were in the LM 12 hours post EVA. Minutes before liftoff they got a lot of other things to worry about. Besides the DAC by that time should have been set up in the window for take off and not have been hand held and moved around between the two windows (as seen in this DAC footage) Any thoughts out there? Thanks

 

Allan F:
Because there was a test firing of the RCS, which impinged on the flag. Look for the transcript on Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

BertieSlack:

--- Quote from: Allan F on December 12, 2018, 01:49:23 AM ---Because there was a test firing of the RCS, which impinged on the flag. Look for the transcript on Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

--- End quote ---

The RCS hot-fire test moved the flag, but there may have been some movement before that. The astronauts reported that they had trouble driving the flag pole far into the lunar surface so it would hold properly. They had to lean the pole slightly to stop it falling over. This is what Armstrong said in the post-mission debrief:

"The flagstaff was pushed into the ground at a slight angle such that the c.g. of the overall unit would tend to be somewhat above the point at which the flagstaff was in-
serted in the lunar surface. That seemed to hold alright, but I noted later after getting back into the LM that the weight of the flag had rotated the entire unit about the flagpole axis such that the flag was no longer pointed in the sane direction as it was originally. I suspect that the weight of the flagpole probably had shifted its position in the sand a little bit from the position where it had originally been installed."

It's not completely clear whether the RCS hot-fire test was before or after Armstrong's noticing the flag had moved. On another mission (can't remember which one) the depressurisation of the cabin before the dumping overboard of the PLSS backpacks may also have moved the flag.

jr Knowing:
Thanks for the replies. I have read the surface journal in the past. The editors of the journal are just guessing and trying to rationalize how the flag changed direction. In fact, they went as far as implying Armstrong didn't know what he was talking about when he suggested he saw the flag had moved when he got back in the LM. Who are we suppose to believe? Armstrong or some guys writing about it 30 years later?

The issue, of course, is Armstrong's comments can't be correct due to the existence of the post EVA photos showing the flag in the original position. So the question still remains. When did the flag change? And another thing to contemplate is why did they do 4 short pans of the same thing. In all the missions, very rarely did they take multiple shots or pans of the same thing. It was usually one shot, done, and move on. A bit odd given the (photo) camera they were using didn't have a viewfinder. Thanks for your input.

nomuse:
Welcome to history.

If a thing happened THIS MORNING, there will still be gaps and inconsistencies as we try to reconstruct it.

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