Author Topic: Apollo Pictures  (Read 10661 times)

Offline benparry

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Apollo Pictures
« on: February 14, 2018, 10:55:30 AM »
Good Afternoon All.

1 thing that has always been on my mind is when did Nasa actually release the original pictures. one of strongest arguments for me is if they did fake all this when did they fake all the evidence. somebody has said to me that nasa didnt release the pics until 1990 odd. is this true or were they released much earlier (and before photoshop was invented)

thanks again

Offline benparry

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 11:01:06 AM »
Michael J Tuttle was the name of the person thrown in who faked the moon pictures. anybody heard that name before.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 11:21:12 AM »
For anyone who says 'they didn't release pictures before xxx date', what they usually mean is 'I haven't found anything from before then yet, therefore I assume they didn't exist'. It's disingenuous at best.

Many of the photos were published as soon as they became available, i.e. once the film came back and was developed. There are magazines from the 60s that have several of them in, newspapers, newspaper supplements, Viewmaster slides, jigsaw puzzles etc. Naturally, being pre-internet days, unless you can lay your hands on a copy of the actual publication it's not just going to drop into your lap on an internet search.

There is another aspect to consider, in that most of the pictures were never intended for mass publication. The average joe in the street tends to forget that photography is a great scientific tool, and indeed most of the images were taken for scientific reasons. The astronauts didn't take cameras up to shoot some nice holiday snaps for the folks at home. They were primarily for the science. Documenting the locations of geological samples, showing the striations in the sides of Hadley Delta, capturing images of the regolith and its compressibility (which is, incidentally, what the famous bootprint photo is actually for: it's not the first print, contrary to popular myth). Of the thousands of images taken on the moon, only a small handful are of interest to the public, therefore only a small handful were published right away for everyone to look at.

Now, in the age of digital scanning and online archives, all of them are available, but that doesn't mean they haven't always been available. You just had to actually go and ask to see them rather than being able to call them up onto a screen at home.

The question to counter anyone who claims the pictures didn't exist before a certain date is to ask them what they have done to prove that. Their failure to find any is not proof they aren't there to be found. More likely it is proof they didn't know where to look.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline benparry

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 11:40:12 AM »
Ah ok thanks a lot for that Jason.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 11:46:06 AM »
There was a gazillion webpages that recently banged on about NASA releasing thousands of photos. What they were on about was a FLICKR page that collated already available photos into a single place.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline BertieSlack

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 12:15:59 PM »
A few weeks after each mission a photo index was published, containing the catalog number of each photo with a brief description. Universities and research institutes could order any photo they wanted. These photo indexes are available now at the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. You can x-ref any published Apollo photo with the relevant index. No photos have been published in recent years that aren't mentioned in the appropriate index, as far as I'm aware.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 12:37:50 PM »
I own actual paper copies of two NASA documents which have (admittedly in low quality) every single photo taken by Apollo 8 and 10, published in 1969 and 1971 respectively. There are other nice volumes such as "Apollo the view from orbit", and one that has views from Apollo 8, 10 and 11 in orbit (I forget its title and I can't see it on my shelf just now). Then there are the preliminary science reports that anyone could buy (I have them for Apollo 14-17), the conference proceedings (I have lots of volumes), the slides and photograph sets that you could get either from NASA or from the numerous periodicals doing cash in publications. All these things were chock full of Apollo images.

The images that appeared on the front pages of newspapers usually did so within week, sometimes much less, of them landing back on Earth.

The photos were not hidden away, they were splashed all over the world's media and published in all manner of general interest and specialist publications.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 12:42:31 PM by onebigmonkey »

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 04:21:56 PM »
Tuttle, incidentally, to my recollection, was the guy who first put the Apollo images online. THis was back when bandwidth was limited and image sizes had to be minimised, so he scanned them and then digitally did such things as maybe sharpening the images a bit, digitally painting out dirt and dust, and 'blacking out' the sky (because when you do a colour scan areas of black are never just black, there's noise in it, in the form of other coloured pixels, and this noise pointlessly takes up bandwidth when compared to a truly monochrome black digital area). This was simply a bit of processing to make the images available, but HBs assume that any kind of processing is tantamount to faking or fabricating, therefore they decide that since he openly explained what he did he was actually saying he made up the photos entirely. One hell of a leap of logic there....
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline raven

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 03:36:01 AM »
Near the back of the  December 1969 edition of National Geographic, there is, among with several photos from Apollo 11 itself in the magazine proper, including two page spreads, there is an advertisement for Apollo 11 images in slide, print, and poster form. I can confirm this with my own print copy, which I will scan from if requested.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 06:50:54 AM »
Excellent example. Threads like this make me wish I'd kept my scrapbook of Apollo-related newspaper clippings I bought from ebay years ago. I only donated them to my local astronomical society, though, so maybe I should get hold of them again and see just what was published when.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline benparry

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 06:59:01 AM »
Hi Raven

no thats ok my friend. i had no doubt my debater was incorrect it just was something i had thought about.

thanks again

Ben

Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 12:56:40 PM »
Near the back of the  December 1969 edition of National Geographic, there is, among with several photos from Apollo 11 itself in the magazine proper, including two page spreads, there is an advertisement for Apollo 11 images in slide, print, and poster form. I can confirm this with my own print copy, which I will scan from if requested.

...and you can find many of these commercial products on eBay, such as ;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEISS-FOCUS-From-Outer-Space-Photo-Slide-Books-NASA-Apollo-Gemini-Vintage/401492514006?hash=item5d7ad194d6:g:nkAAAOSwALtagjms

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-NASA-Apollo-11-Moon-Landing-Slides-Armstrong-Collins-Aldrin/323070501189?hash=item4b3880a145:g:6MkAAOSwZA1agaXB
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 12:58:13 PM by Apollo 957 »

Offline sts60

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 07:26:13 PM »
You could order any picture you wanted from the JSC photo library, back then, back before the IBM PC, let alone Photoshop.  It is an ignorant and frankly lazy and idiotic claim.

Offline Geordie

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2018, 05:41:15 AM »
You could order any picture you wanted from the JSC photo library, back then, back before the IBM PC, let alone Photoshop.  It is an ignorant and frankly lazy and idiotic claim.
I once asked a photoshop-conspiracy guy exactly what seventies-era computer equipment was used for the photoshopping, and he told me to "ask the guy that did it."

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo Pictures
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2018, 10:35:18 PM »
Near the back of the  December 1969 edition of National Geographic, there is, among with several photos from Apollo 11 itself in the magazine proper, including two page spreads, there is an advertisement for Apollo 11 images in slide, print, and poster form. I can confirm this with my own print copy, which I will scan from if requested.

I have the same issue in print.  Does yours still have the vinyl phonograph sheet?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams