Author Topic: Apollo 13  (Read 163522 times)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2013, 02:52:51 AM »
Yes, slightly gibbous but you're hoisting by your own petard since the sun is then to the right of camera, with the moonscape lit from the left... the dark shadow band at the bottom clearly should be sun-lit.

You are not any kind of professional photographer if you cannot see that the gibbousness of the Earth and the shadows of the peaks (A) inside the crater both indicate that the sun is to the right and behind the camera.



How can you not see that the whole moonscape is lit from the same position. The dark area at the bottom (B) between the viewer and the crater peaks, is the shadow of the near rim of the crater.

Looking at this picture, the whole scene looks like its lit from "behind and to my right", which is what it is. It is clear and obvious, that there is NO lighting of any kind coming from the left side. If it was lit from the left, then the right hand rear crater wall (C) would be in full sunlight - it isn't. The only wall of that crater that IS in full sunlight is the back left (D). Taken together, (C) and (D) prove conclusively that there is only one light source, and it is behind and to the right of the camera. If there were two light sources, the Sun and your imagined one to the left, then both (C) and (D) would be in full sunlight
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 03:05:22 AM by smartcooky »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Glom

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 04:48:19 AM »
Allancw, you're all over the place.

One issue at a time please.

Your sources on the effect of cold are not quite accurate. 1 degree Celsius is a lot more manageable than you think when you're in the dry. It's when wet that it is more dangerous because water is a much more potent medium to lose heat.

Also, if you read up a little, you'll discover comments by Lovell about how sitting still in zero G without convection allowed a bubble of warm air to develop around. When sleeping, they were a bit toastier so did get some respite.

Offline nomuse

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 05:24:13 AM »
You guys are over my head with some of your data/explanations.... I appreciate the time and effort though. But still, the question remains: Lovell has stated that the temperature in the LM (I stand corrected) quickly dropped to 34 f. This is hypothermia time and sorry but a spacesuit and some sweating would be better than hypothermia (or death, according to my EMS friend).

Bean said as I quoted him in a film (I recall) called Moon Movie. Trust me, I screen-grabbed it. I also found it incredible that Bean didn't know he went through the Van Allen Belt. (You all here should have seen by now his embarrassing interview on this subject.) I compare it to running into someone who claims he climbed Everest and when asked how he handled the thin air answers, 'What thin air?'

I doubt that there are any 'technical' explanations for this one.

I also find it incredible that the Apollo 11 crew claimed they could see no stars from the moon's service and in a BBC interview Armstrong said you cannot see stars from sislunar (sp?) space either -- frankly, you could tell he was lying in this one. It's on Youtube, search 'BBC interviews Neil Armstrong.' You can then go to NASA's 'Pictures of the Day' and see what the day time sky would look like from the earth with no atmosphere (or the moon, same thing). It would be breathtaking.

That an astronaut (all three of the Apollo crew) would lie about this is damning, no?

Also, that they 'lost' 10,000 reel to reel telemetry tapes -- the scientific history of the missions -- makes 'the dog ate my homework' look like gospel. Ditto with the specs to the LM and the Saturn. This sort of thing does it for me.

When I started looking into the possibility that Apollo was a hoax, I totally expected it to be a BS 'conspiracy theory.' I was in for a surprise.

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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 07:27:44 AM »
Lovell has stated that the temperature in the LM (I stand corrected) quickly dropped to 34 f. This is hypothermia time and sorry but a spacesuit and some sweating would be better than hypothermia (or death, according to my EMS friend).

34 degrees Fahrenheit is survivable for extended periods. Air isn't a great heat sink. On the other hand, there wasn't room in the LM for three men in spacesuits, and if they took off the suits to gain some mobility or avoid overheating (which they would without an active colling system inside the suit, even with their helmets and gloves off) and tried floating around in that temperature is sweaty wet garments they would very quickly suffer the effects of cold.

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I also found it incredible that Bean didn't know he went through the Van Allen Belt. (You all here should have seen by now his embarrassing interview on this subject.) I compare it to running into someone who claims he climbed Everest and when asked how he handled the thin air answers, 'What thin air?'

The comparison is not remotely valid. As air gets thinner you find it colder and harder to breathe and exert yourself. There is no way for a human in a spacecraft to tell he is passing through the van Allen belt. The trajectory of the Apollo flights was designed to avoid them mostly anyway. It is not a requirement of a flight to the moon to pass through the van Allen belt. It's a belt, and spaceflight is a 3D problem...

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I doubt that there are any 'technical' explanations for this one.

I doubt you'd accept them anyway, if that is going to be your attitude going in.

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I also find it incredible that the Apollo 11 crew claimed they could see no stars from the moon's service and in a BBC interview Armstrong said you cannot see stars from sislunar (sp?) space either

Why do you find it incredible that on a sunlit surface surrounded by brightly lit things they could not see stars? As to Armstrong's response, he was being asked about a very specific point in the mission. He did not say 'stars are invisible in cislunar space under any and all conditions'. That's just your interpretation.

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frankly, you could tell he was lying in this one.

No, he wasn't. You just decided he must be.

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You can then go to NASA's 'Pictures of the Day' and see what the day time sky would look like from the earth with no atmosphere (or the moon, same thing). It would be breathtaking.

Would it? How well do you think your eyes could make out all those stars with the Sun above the horizon and the ground and everything around you brightly lit? Try going outside at night and shining a torch in your face while you try and look at the stars and see how breathtaking the view is then.

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That an astronaut (all three of the Apollo crew) would lie about this is damning, no?

If they were lying it would be damning, but they're not. Their statements don't match your expectations, and you admit to being out of your depth on the technical side. That's the problem.

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Also, that they 'lost' 10,000 reel to reel telemetry tapes -- the scientific history of the missions -- makes 'the dog ate my homework' look like gospel.

They did not lose anything. They reused the original telemetry tape because they needed it for other missions. By that time they had copied the historically significant details such as the TV broadcast onto other media.

>>Ditto with the specs to the LM and the Saturn.<<

Which specs are lost? We hear this one a lot, and yet no-one seems to be able to tell what's missing. I have a number of cooks that contain a lot of technical detail about the LM and the Saturn rockets. Full detailed construction blueprints would be a vast storage problem for something no lnoger being made, but that doesn't mean you can;t find them in an archive somewhere on microfilm. Have you actually tried to find out where such information might be?
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 07:28:31 AM »
Yes, slightly gibbous but you're hoisting by your own petard since the sun is then to the right of camera, with the moonscape lit from the left... the dark shadow band at the bottom clearly should be sun-lit.

In what way is that moonscape lit from the left? The crater peak shadow is clearly lit by a source behind and to the right of the photographer, justa s the Earth is.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Peter B

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 08:57:39 AM »
I also found it incredible that Bean didn't know he went through the Van Allen Belt. (You all here should have seen by now his embarrassing interview on this subject.) I compare it to running into someone who claims he climbed Everest and when asked how he handled the thin air answers, 'What thin air?'

I doubt that there are any 'technical' explanations for this one.
What practical use was there for Bean to know one way or the other? Would knowing it have helped him perform his mission better?

Bean was flat out (a) learning how to help Gordon and Conrad fly the CM, (b) learning how to help Conrad fly the LM, (c) learning the geology of the landing area for Apollo 12, (d) learning how to set up and operate the ALSEP, and (e) probably a few other things too. Learning that at two points in the mission he'd pass through the fringes of the Van Allen Belts was not relevant to any aspect of successfully completing the mission.

To put it another way, if I gave you street directions for you to drive from point A to point B, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't notice the colour of the fourth house on the right; because you're concentrating on (a) driving and (b) looking for street signs.

Offline allancw

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 10:50:21 AM »
I certainly hit the motherlode when it comes to experts! This is great. I actually am a respected (if not rich) writer doing a project on subjects like conspiracy theorists; other things as well. You can look up my books at amazon -- Allan Weisbecker is my name.

Will you guys continue to 'set me straight'?

If so: One question I have is why they used approx 16 psi of pure O2 in the capsule during a communications test -- when Grissom & Co burned to death. Even I know not to do that.

Offline Glom

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 10:55:08 AM »
If so: One question I have is why they used approx 16 psi of pure O2 in the capsule during a communications test -- when Grissom & Co burned to death. Even I know not to do that.

You do now because of Apollo 1.

After an accident, everyone, especially those who would otherwise have no clue, become a Captain Hindsight.

Offline allancw

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2013, 11:00:44 AM »
That's your answer? An insult?

Offline gillianren

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2013, 11:05:23 AM »
Well, your question is kind of an insult, isn't it?  "I don't know much about space travel, and I'm smart enough to know not to do this thing."  But because you don't know much about space travel, you have no idea what possible reasons there might have been for it and why it might have seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Offline allancw

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2013, 11:07:27 AM »
You're very quick on your responses. May I ask if this is a paying job?

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2013, 11:14:05 AM »
Ah, here we go.  Are you about to accuse us all of being paid shills?  Strange how often that is used as a deflection tactic, so I'm sure you won't mind my asking.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:18:40 AM by Andromeda »
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2013, 11:16:25 AM »
You're very quick on your responses. May I ask if this is a paying job?

If people are quick on their responses it's because we've heard it all before. So far you haven't brought anything new to the discussion. Your claims are so old that we've even made a game out of them.
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2013, 11:22:59 AM »
Hey, Andromeda... looks like the US government shutdown broke your avatar.  :-\
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2013, 11:23:41 AM »
Hey, Andromeda... looks like the US government shutdown broke your avatar.  :-\

:( thanks for letting me know.  Fixed it now!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:26:38 AM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.