Author Topic: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?  (Read 6653 times)

Offline Peter B

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Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« on: September 27, 2015, 10:42:35 AM »
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf

This is a NASA document titled "The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management". I saw it referred to in this YouTube video:

I didn't bother to watch much of the video, but the video's poster makes an interesting point about the document.

On page 9 of the PDF (page 1 of the document) is the following paragraph:
Quote
The blowing dust caused by the Apollo 12 LM landing appears to have been worse than that of Apollo 11. In fact, a standup extravehicular activity (EVA) was performed by the crew to assess the site prior to performing lunar surface EVAs because blowing dust completely obscured the view during landing.

Now the video poster claims this is evidence of NASA perfidy, etc etc. But even ignoring the video, the statement in the document is strange in itself. I scanned the ALSJ briefly and found no reference to a stand-up EVA on Apollo 12, and the only SEVA I've ever read of was the one on Apollo 15.

Out of curiosity, given that this is a NASA official document, how could they make such a mistake?

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 11:02:20 AM »
I've seen this document discussed before, and I think the general conclusion was that the author simply got it wrong, and no-one around her knew enough to contradict her.

See the latter part of this thread:

http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/001565.html

:)

Offline Peter B

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2015, 11:06:35 AM »
Cool. Thanks for the (very quick) reply.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2015, 11:44:07 AM »
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/TP-2006-213726.pdf

This is a NASA document titled "The Apollo Experience Lessons Learned for Constellation Lunar Dust Management". I saw it referred to in this YouTube video:

I didn't bother to watch much of the video, but the video's poster makes an interesting point about the document.

On page 9 of the PDF (page 1 of the document) is the following paragraph:
Quote
The blowing dust caused by the Apollo 12 LM landing appears to have been worse than that of Apollo 11. In fact, a standup extravehicular activity (EVA) was performed by the crew to assess the site prior to performing lunar surface EVAs because blowing dust completely obscured the view during landing.

Now the video poster claims this is evidence of NASA perfidy, etc etc. But even ignoring the video, the statement in the document is strange in itself. I scanned the ALSJ briefly and found no reference to a stand-up EVA on Apollo 12, and the only SEVA I've ever read of was the one on Apollo 15.

Out of curiosity, given that this is a NASA official document, how could they make such a mistake?
I saw his video several months ago.  After viewing the timeline for A15 in which it took the better part of an hour to prepare for the SEVA, it seemed unlikely this would have been possible.  Another point Conrad used manual control, I think he called it Q-ball, on final approach and landing but he knew where he was.  Earlier in the transmissions he notes he could see their crater.  So he may not have known within a few meters(feet) where he was but certainly he was near the Surveyor crater.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline Trebor

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 12:17:24 PM »
...
Out of curiosity, given that this is a NASA official document, how could they make such a mistake?

People make mistakes, its part of being human. In this case they do mean Apollo 15 and this ended up being copied down wrong.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 01:03:47 PM »
...
Out of curiosity, given that this is a NASA official document, how could they make such a mistake?

People make mistakes, its part of being human. In this case they do mean Apollo 15 and this ended up being copied down wrong.
Very true, but the HB's cherry pick tiny anomalies just like this one.  How about the two videos during A16 where the video was on the same hill, but recorded a day apart and a kilometer away? Just another clerical error.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Trebor

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 02:03:25 PM »
...
Out of curiosity, given that this is a NASA official document, how could they make such a mistake?

People make mistakes, its part of being human. In this case they do mean Apollo 15 and this ended up being copied down wrong.
Very true, but the HB's cherry pick tiny anomalies just like this one.  How about the two videos during A16 where the video was on the same hill, but recorded a day apart and a kilometer away? Just another clerical error.
From what I recall that was slightly different, more a case of laziness. Where they got the footage from another documentary and not the original NASA footage.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 12 Stand-up EVA?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 02:12:29 PM »

From what I recall that was slightly different, more a case of laziness. Where they got the footage from another documentary and not the original NASA footage.
Yes to the documentary and yew to the clerical error whether made by laziness or any other manner.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan