Author Topic: Good books about the moon landings hoax?  (Read 347252 times)

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #930 on: August 01, 2015, 10:03:35 AM »
And some recently recovered footage:



Such subtlety and cleverness from the NASA hoax department! Imagine the foresight and planning it took to make that film, then hide it for 40 years knowing that it could be released on a yet-to-be-invented marketplace called eBay which runs on a yet-to-be-invented global network accessed by ordinary people in their own homes on yet-to-be-invented things called computers. Such cleverness is really to be admired, isn't it.

Now, if only they had put that knowledge, skill and effort into actually going to the Moon! Then they wouldn't have to defend the hoax through places like Apollohoax and have to employ a small army of paid shills in order to prevent plucky finders of the truth like Neil Burns from blowing the whole affair!

(Warning, a certain amount of gullibility is required if you believe any of the above....)   ;)
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #931 on: August 01, 2015, 11:35:49 PM »
Since we are viewing post flight memorabilia, Buzz Aldrin Tweeted this a couple of days ago.

It would be cool to have this in one's memory chest.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #932 on: August 01, 2015, 11:36:34 PM »
This is the second half of the Tweet, sorry I can't(don't know how to) make it bigger.

Edit:  I made a mistake and this should have been posted in the Good books about the moon landings hoax? thread.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 12:22:08 AM by bknight »
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline raven

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #933 on: August 01, 2015, 11:45:49 PM »
Buzz Aldrin. Tweeting. That feels . . . weird. :o

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #934 on: August 02, 2015, 12:19:21 AM »
Buzz Aldrin. Tweeting. That feels . . . weird. :o

Been following him for a few years.  I guess old guys like us can connect with new technology.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline gillianren

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #935 on: August 03, 2015, 11:13:48 AM »
Ladies and gentlemen, while we all acknowledge that refuting even the most inept hoax believer can lead to fruitful discussions, I really think there are some cases that are just not worth it.  I have repeatedly asked Jockndoris why anybody should pay any attention whatsoever to his ridiculous story.  No answer is a good enough answer for me.  Burns is a crackpot seeking attention, and I'm not about to give this knucklehead any of mine.  He's a zero, a nonentity, and even pointing and laughing at him is a waste of time.

I've used him a time or two as an example of the depths to which hoax believers can fall in order to "prove" their point and of how pathetic conspiracism gets sometimes.  Is that something?
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #936 on: August 03, 2015, 12:03:09 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, while we all acknowledge that refuting even the most inept hoax believer can lead to fruitful discussions, I really think there are some cases that are just not worth it.  I have repeatedly asked Jockndoris why anybody should pay any attention whatsoever to his ridiculous story.  No answer is a good enough answer for me.  Burns is a crackpot seeking attention, and I'm not about to give this knucklehead any of mine.  He's a zero, a nonentity, and even pointing and laughing at him is a waste of time.

I've used him a time or two as an example of the depths to which hoax believers can fall in order to "prove" their point and of how pathetic conspiracism gets sometimes.  Is that something?
Did you get vaccinated before/after using him?    It seems like he disappears every so often and then comes back to get a hit about how many posts/views he gets.  His ego must be very fragile and constantly needs reinforcement.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Peter B

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #937 on: August 04, 2015, 10:26:40 AM »
This is the second half of the Tweet, sorry I can't(don't know how to) make it bigger.

Edit:  I made a mistake and this should have been posted in the Good books about the moon landings hoax? thread.

Nice.

And all the more amusing for me, as in my current job I'm processing claims for Part-Day Travel Allowance and Mileage Allowance (well, actually Motor Vehicle Allowance, but you get the idea). But while some of my employees have racked up impressive numbers of kilometres, none of them travelled as far as the above government employee...

(To round it off, I started "Also Sprach Zarathustra" on the car's CD player (loudly) on the way to work this morning, and pretty much the first thing I saw as I drove up the street from home was the Moon in a cloudless sky. Lovely.)

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #938 on: August 04, 2015, 10:35:36 AM »

Nice.

And all the more amusing for me, as in my current job I'm processing claims for Part-Day Travel Allowance and Mileage Allowance (well, actually Motor Vehicle Allowance, but you get the idea). But while some of my employees have racked up impressive numbers of kilometres, none of them travelled as far as the above government employee...

(To round it off, I started "Also Sprach Zarathustra" on the car's CD player (loudly) on the way to work this morning, and pretty much the first thing I saw as I drove up the street from home was the Moon in a cloudless sky. Lovely.)
I'm sure the allocation is much more than it was in 1969.  I currently get $1.50/mile.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline ineluki

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #939 on: October 30, 2015, 08:40:02 AM »

I've used him a time or two as an example of the depths to which hoax believers can fall in order to "prove" their point and of how pathetic conspiracism gets sometimes. 

As a teacher of mine sometimes joked, "no one is completely useless, they can serve as a bad example".

Offline Jockndoris

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #940 on: January 17, 2016, 09:02:42 AM »
 

Wonderful news for JayUtah

Here is the proof we have all been waiting 43 years for that Apollo 16 most definitely landed a rocket on the moon in 1972.  The proof comes from no less an authority than NASA themselves .

 http://www.space.com/31503-apollo-16-moon-rocket-crash-site-photo.html

How can be possibly deny such concrete, up to date, definitive evidence.

Jockndoris

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #941 on: January 17, 2016, 09:22:55 AM »


Wonderful news for JayUtah

Here is the proof we have all been waiting 43 years for that Apollo 16 most definitely landed a rocket on the moon in 1972.  The proof comes from no less an authority than NASA themselves .

 http://www.space.com/31503-apollo-16-moon-rocket-crash-site-photo.html

How can be possibly deny such concrete, up to date, definitive evidence.

Jockndoris
This news is two edged:
1.  To the Moon Hoaxers it is either a Photoshopped image that proves nothing or the impact site is only naturally occurring Lunar impact.
2. To those believers it is a verification that the S-IVB that took that stage and the CSM/LM from LEO to a Lunar Orbit that ended in the landing of the Orion
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Jockndoris

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #942 on: January 17, 2016, 10:02:27 AM »
But how can you decide which?  You are obviously not certain otherwise you would agree with me.

Offline bknight

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #943 on: January 17, 2016, 10:07:24 AM »
But how can you decide which?  You are obviously not certain otherwise you would agree with me.
Hardly as my multitude of posts indicate that I know the landings occurred as history has recorded the events.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Ishkabibble

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #944 on: January 17, 2016, 10:12:07 AM »
Apparently, Burns thinks he's merely getting a rise out of the forum, in which case it is to his benefit that he can keep doing so. This is clearly part of his intent to control the discussion, without actually having to participate in it.

I therefore note that his actions can clearly be categorized as "sealioning"

 Chances are you've seen this comic by David Malki if you frequent Twitter at all these days.
 

It even created a new verb - "sealioning" - to describe the act of jumping into a discussion with demands for evidence and answers to questions.
 Why is it an awful thing to do? Why do people react so negatively to a request for evidence? Surely a reasoned, rational person would acquiesce to such a request!

Well, no. And here's why.

The biggest reason why people hate sealioning is because responding to it is a complete waste of time.

It's an insidious trap. Responding to questions asked reasonably is, of course, a natural thing for people to do. I like to do it myself; educating others is generally pretty entertaining, especially if they are receptive to learning. Dismissing those questions can appear condescending or rude, especially if you actually are condescending or rude.

Of course, these questions are not asked because the person genuinely wants to know. If they did, they would do their own digging based on your statements, and only ask for obscure or difficult-to-discover information. This is the "debate principle"; when you go to a debate, you educate yourself on the topics at hand, and only request evidence when a claim is either quite outlandish or unflinchingly obscure.

No, these questions are asked to make you waste your time. It works, too; I've responded to sealions before, answering all their questions and claims for evidence, only to be greeted by even more willful ignorance. It's a way to force you into responding to questions phrased neutrally but asked in bad faith.

When you ask a question in bad faith, you are essentially looking for a way to demean, degrade, or otherwise destroy your target. A good example of an obviously bad faith question is the perennial favorite "When did you stop beating your wife?" as it instantly casts doubt upon the person asked the question.

However, it's easy to ask a question in bad faith using reasoned, good faith practices. Neutral phrasing does not always guarantee a question is asked in good faith. This is extremely obvious in documented sealioning; the target responds, only for the questioner to immediately grill them for more information, misinterpret the answer, or dismiss it entirely.

The purpose of sealioning never to actually learn or become more informed. The purpose is to interrogate. Much like actual interrogators, sealioners bombard the target with question after question, digging and digging until the target either says something stupid or is so pissed off that they react in the extreme.

All of this, of course, relies on asking a lot of questions, often with little-to-no downtime between volleys. It further depends entirely on the sealioner never accepting any factual evidence, and ignoring any that comes along. It almost always accompanies a move from topic to topic, to avoid any valid responses from the sealioner, and allows them to retain complete control over the discussion.

When the target is continually asked questions - especially the same question under a different phrasing, (which is a very common sealioning tactic) it's rattling. They have to fight the natural instinct to respond in good faith to neutrally-phrased questions, as answering them will only bring more. It's a forced violation of the empathy that a compassionate person feels towards others, as it pushes them into noticing that their questioners are not particularly interested in the questions themselves.

Compound this with being sealioned by multiple people, as is common on Twitter and YouTube, and you've got a recipe for a very frustrating and fruitless timeline. If you respond, you are bombarded with even more questions by people who aren't asking to actually be convinced. If you do not respond, you are insulted as somebody who doesn't wish to participate in reasoned discourse, despite the clear and simple fact that such a discourse is not reasonable; it merely has the appearance of rationality.

 It's unfortunate that we must be suspicious of purportedly honest and neutral questions. Asking questions and being open is key to establishing dialogue and understanding one another. When you are the target of a sealion or a brigade of sealions, though, the purpose is to get you to waste your time responding to every little complaint, and falsely-amiable questions are the easiest way to get you to waste it. It is never about the answers, the factual responses that might be given, or the documented evidence that refutes the claim. It is about engaging you in repetitive response, so that the one who is doing the sealioning is never actually pinned down and forced to answer any questions of their own. The original responder usually gets angry first, and that is all the confirmation that the sealion needs to show his version is correct. If it weren’t you wouldn’t have run away angry.
You don't "believe" that the lunar landings happened. You either understand the science or you don't.

If the lessons of history teach us any one thing, it is that no one learns the lessons that history teaches...