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11
The Hoax Theory / Re: Saturn V Third Stage - Not enough room
« Last post by Peter B on March 22, 2024, 11:00:55 AM »
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I used a cylinder calculator and came up with 22,781 cubic feet.

Correct.

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Now we look at the list. There were 2 fuel tanks the larger held almost 80,000 gallons the other just over 6,000. The fuel alone takes up 11,417.52 Cubic feet of space.

His figures are fairly off, but his volume is similar to what I calculated.

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That's not counting the tanks to hold the fuel or the lines and pumps to move it.

Er, what? Once you put the fuel in, there's no room left for the fuel?

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Remember it's already more than ½ full even if you just literally poured the fuel in the rocket.

Um, yes, that's how it works. A bit over half the volume of the stage is taken up by fuel. That leaves a bit less than half the volume for lines and pumps and engines and stuff.
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The Hoax Theory / Saturn V Third Stage - Not enough room
« Last post by benparry on March 22, 2024, 08:30:34 AM »
Morning / Afternoon All.

Another Facebook group argument / debate. Below is a comment from somebody. Is there a website which literally adds up the bits within the Third stage that shows it does all fit





Phase 3 of the Saturn 5 rocket is 61.6 feet tall and 21.7 feet in diameter. If it was a cylinder (which it's not the top has a lander attached to it and it's much smaller and the diameter slowly decreases at the top)
I used a cylinder calculator and came up with 22,781 cubic feet.
Now we look at the list. There were 2 fuel tanks the larger held almost 80,000 gallons the other just over 6,000. The fuel alone takes up 11,417.52 Cubic feet of space. That's not counting the tanks to hold the fuel or the lines and pumps to move it.
Remember it's already more than ½ full even if you just literally poured the fuel in the rocket.

And that's if the entire rocket was shaped like a cylinder, again it's not

We still need room for Insulation so now your available space is even smaller.

Next subtract the cubic feet needed for the rocket's engines.

Don't forget the Lander itself.
We still need an oxygen supply, batteries, computers, and room for 3 Astronauts. It literally doesn't all fit.




cheers guys

Ben
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General Discussion / Re: Skylab launch video and animation
« Last post by JayUtah on March 18, 2024, 01:33:48 PM »
Actually now that I think about it, I'm not sure they did any aerodynamic testing on the shield at all. I recall that being a big part of the incident investigation afterward.
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General Discussion / Re: Skylab launch video and animation
« Last post by JayUtah on March 18, 2024, 10:13:08 AM »
Unanticipated aerodynamic effects.

The shield was in fact very flimsy, because it didn't need to have much structural strength to perform its task on orbit. What most people don't realize is how the shield was meant to deploy. It was supposed to spring outward and form a larger cylinder than in the stowed-for-launch configuration (with foldouts to create the larger perimeter needed).

One of the fairings for the tunnels containing cabling and other conduits down the side of the payload created a shock wave that pulled the nearby leading edge of the shield away just enough for ram air to get underneath it. Once that happens, the shield is not nearly strong enough to withstand the slipstream.

The shield was made from 22-gauge aerospace aluminum, which makes it about twice as thick as an aluminum pie plate, or about twice as thick as your HVAC ductwork. For launch, it was held tight against the lab wall by its deployment mechanism. The aerodynamic test regime had not included protrusions such as fairings.
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General Discussion / Re: Apollo 11 video feed delay?
« Last post by David Ridlen on March 18, 2024, 05:51:00 AM »
Sorta.  He replies as if open to admitting to being wrong about fakery, remains civil, and at least partly admits when debunked. 

I am defending the impossibility of faking artificial lighting in the Apollo visual record.  He is mostly arguing how all photographic evidence can be faked one way or another.

He finds the video and 16mm footage more compelling to argue with, than any still images, since the camera and things move around, conceding that they cannot be post-composited.  For the moment, he is ignoring what I consider the most compelling visual recording- 16mm Apollo 15 footage of EVA 2 (also EVA 3), between Station 6 and 6a-   It cannot be miniature since uncut footage has astronauts walk in front of camera, and shows miles of evenly lit terrain with sharp, unidirectional shadows, where it is impossible to use or hide lights.  I will return to that.

But after days of debate on this frame-rate point (among others), he has retreated to claiming NASA is at least lying about a live feed, but not that it proves anything one way or the other.  But I know that if you dont debunk a particular detail they gather all wagons around that last hill.  So I was looking for a bit more definitive info on the A11 feed delay.
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General Discussion / Re: Apollo 11 video feed delay?
« Last post by Zakalwe on March 18, 2024, 05:06:36 AM »
So he's not questioning that the events took place as seen, just that it took a bit longer to process?
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General Discussion / Apollo 11 video feed delay?
« Last post by David Ridlen on March 18, 2024, 12:21:33 AM »
Does anyone know where specifics are about how long the Apollo 11 video frame conversion process took?  An Apollo denier with some video experience is insisting it would have taken hours to process, preventing a live feed.  Offhand, I dont find precise info about how long the scan rate conversion (10 fps to NTSC) took to record and send.  The best I can find is this- https://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/news_events/apollo11/The_Apollo11_SSTV_Tapes_Search.pdf  but it does not say how long the conversion process took.

The denier's most recent claim is:

"...The TV signal had to have a significant delay in relation to the communication because the speed of recording on the hard disk and on the tape is limited by the speed of reading, writing and the speed of rotation of the disk and tape. Considering that the hard disk was returning the signal for rebroadcasting and scanning, it is clear that the minimum delay of the TV signal is 3 hours in relation to communication. Even if they managed to spin the hard drive at the speed of light and execute the whole process at the speed of light, the delay would be at least 20 frames every second. So definitely someone had to synchronize the communication and the video recording, and given that the communication was already in the live program of many televisions, it is logical that the televisions had to do that work. Assuming they knew exactly how long the delay was, they could do it in two ways. The first is to slow down the tone until the TV image reaches the communication and the second is to speed up the image. Since it is not visible in the live broadcast that they slowed down the tone, it remains that they could only slow down the image. All televisions that broadcast live broadcasts had to synchronize at the same time. Now there is another problem, and that is that they had to record all the video material first, and only then synchronize it, again all at the same time. So NASA and the TV stations that broadcast the live broadcast lied."

Thanks!
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