ApolloHoax.net

Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: benparry on November 29, 2017, 08:27:38 AM

Title: MSFN
Post by: benparry on November 29, 2017, 08:27:38 AM
Hi Everybody. i have recently been asked a question regarding the missions only staying in LEO. I pointed out to him that the MSFN collected signals from space and relayed these to the MCC but his rather jumpy reply was simply no Nasa used moonbounce to fool people on the ground. now although he has no proof of this does his claim have any merit. am i correct in saying that the MSFN couldnt be fooled by this as they collected signals from space and tracked the ships to the moon and back.

thanks again Guys
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: AtomicDog on November 29, 2017, 09:28:29 AM
Moonbounce couldn't simulate a mission in transit to and from the moon. Also, a ship in orbit around the moon had a noticeable Doppler track.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: AtomicDog on November 29, 2017, 09:45:28 AM
Here's an excerpt from "How Apollo Flew to the Moon" that shows how orbital velocity affected communications. Simply bouncing a signal wouldn't have worked.


https://books.google.com/books?id=x-taL4N0sjIC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=doppler+effect+on+command+module+signals&source=bl&ots=v92sRZuORV&sig=j1HZYP4VjbdrHAnpfw5O26G1EBs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCram1gOTXAhUhzoMKHUMFB8MQ6AEIUDAN#v=onepage&q=doppler%20effect%20on%20command%20module%20signals&f=false
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: benparry on November 29, 2017, 09:52:59 AM
thats great thanks for that.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: onebigmonkey on November 29, 2017, 11:10:19 AM
Moonbounce simply wouldn't be reliable enough to produce the claimed effect consistently, with the correct time delay, over the course of many days. It needs ideal conditions to work, and the person with whom you are having the discussion needs to explain exactly how it would work. How, for example, would a conversation supposedly being held in the continental US be bounced to the moon and received in Australia, or Madrid?

Being in LEO would also require comms stations to be changed every 10-15 minutes, not the several hours they actually were (check the difference in the transcripts between Apollo 7 and 9 compared with the lunar missions).

Being in LEO would also stop them from taking images, or broadcasting live TV, of the entire Earth - just not possible.

This kind of handwaving is usually regarded as sufficient by hoax proponents, but unfortunately they need to explain it properly, not just drop the mic and think they're done.

Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: benparry on November 29, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
lol a bit like almost everything else then lol . thanks for that answer i'll see what he has to say about it if he comes back
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Jubril on November 30, 2017, 03:41:03 AM
Hi folks. Long-term lurker here, first-time poster. :)

It seems to me that the 'moonbounce' claim betrays the childish misconception that the Apollo spacecraft were somehow fired straight at the moon during TLI. Even leaving aside the finer details of orbital mechanics, the average person in the street would surely understand that the spacecraft had to be aimed at the place where the moon was going to be three days after launch rather than its position at the time of TLI.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: benparry on November 30, 2017, 04:05:29 AM
thats an excellent point. the moon bounce claim in my opinion is simply another desperate attempt to explain something that doesnt need to be explained.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: gwiz on November 30, 2017, 04:52:52 AM
Here's a link about astronomers, professional and amateur, tracking Apollo.  They didn't point their telescopes at the Moon.
http://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: bknight on November 30, 2017, 08:37:53 PM
Here's a link about astronomers, professional and amateur, tracking Apollo.  They didn't point their telescopes at the Moon.
http://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html
An excellent example the HB's dismiss or ignore.  I had a "discussion" with one on YTube, concerning the guys (Larry Baysinger et al) who listened in on A11 while on the Moon.  He said like that ever happened.  You can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Abaddon on December 03, 2017, 02:54:42 PM
Hi folks. Long-term lurker here, first-time poster. :)

It seems to me that the 'moonbounce' claim betrays the childish misconception that the Apollo spacecraft were somehow fired straight at the moon during TLI. Even leaving aside the finer details of orbital mechanics, the average person in the street would surely understand that the spacecraft had to be aimed at the place where the moon was going to be three days after launch rather than its position at the time of TLI.
That one seems to go with the weird idea that the engines fired continuously all the way to the moon (and back of course). My guess is that both of these notions occur because A) The closest analog some people can imagine is terrestrial jet travel and B) Sci-fi in popular culture depicts this as being the case. (with some notable exceptions)

BTW, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: benparry on December 04, 2017, 04:20:34 AM
I've actually come out of all forums that i was in on Facebook. i thing i have graduated from the school of 'Your wasting your time' with an honours degree.

it doesnt matter what you say to these people they wont change their mind.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: bknight on December 04, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
Pretty much so, I dipped my toe into the YTube world for a couple of years and decided the same thing, quit beating my head against the wall and quit.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: molesworth on December 06, 2017, 04:21:35 PM
Pretty much so, I dipped my toe into the YTube world for a couple of years and decided the same thing, quit beating my head against the wall and quit.
For beating your head against a wall, nothing can possibly be worse than trying to debate the denizens of "G - P"  :o  I've tried to present rational, careful arguments on several topics, but run into nothing but idiocy, ignorance and downright abuse.

My final hoorah was daring to contradict one of their "regulars" who claimed to have sailed to Antarctica*, but who'd just posted a load of images he'd found around the internet.  My posts were deleted, and even a separate thread I tried to start on it was removed, presumably by one of the mods.  They are a special little clique, all of their own, and welcome to it as far as I'm concerned...

I believe the general opinion in more sane quarters is "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"  :D

[ * for reference, I have sailed there, and the big give-away was posting a picture I recognised instantly... ]
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: inconceivable on December 18, 2017, 11:10:56 AM
After watching Youtubes for years it has revealed to me that moon transit communications were accompished with CSM-009b, CSM-009c, and CSM-009d.  Apollo destinations sites on the moon were previously tagged with a Luna mission and with the Ranger Spacecraft missions, with one remaining in lunar orbit.  This joint Russia/US mission know as the Cold War was to bring an end to the visitors from the Moon and  the cold vacuum of space and also to their occupying locations on Earth, the deep sea and Antarctica.  The problem was that they understood early on that any biological from Earth could only remain alert to 10 Earth radii.  All animals and humans sent into space remained unconsious passed the 10 Earth Radii.  Biological conscience is severed passed this distance.  After the payloads were remotely dropped on the ETs, with  command modules, etc., the next stage of the Cold War officially had begun with a strike back.  Most of the footage was chopped from probes, CSMs, and Russian footage and created on sound stage.   4dlfi4
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: sts60 on December 18, 2017, 01:17:40 PM
Son, it’s a bad idea to post while drunk.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: bknight on December 18, 2017, 04:09:39 PM
After watching Youtubes for years it has revealed to me that moon transit communications were accompished with CSM-009b, CSM-009c, and CSM-009d.  Apollo destinations sites on the moon were previously tagged with a Luna mission and with the Ranger Spacecraft missions, with one remaining in lunar orbit.  This joint Russia/US mission know as the Cold War was to bring an end to the visitors from the Moon and  the cold vacuum of space and also to their occupying locations on Earth, the deep sea and Antarctica.  The problem was that they understood early on that any biological from Earth could only remain alert to 10 Earth radii.  All animals and humans sent into space remained unconsious passed the 10 Earth Radii.  Biological conscience is severed passed this distance.  After the payloads were remotely dropped on the ETs, with  command modules, etc., the next stage of the Cold War officially had begun with a strike back.  Most of the footage was chopped from probes, CSMs, and Russian footage and created on sound stage.   4dlfi4

As sts60 noted your post doesn't make any sense.  You shouldn't use YouTube as your reference as there too many nuts making claims that aren't based on fact or science.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: AtomicDog on December 18, 2017, 10:40:55 PM
Inconceivable, in presenting us with this breathless revelation, you forgot to present us with one teensy thing: evidence.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: raven on December 19, 2017, 12:35:31 AM
I think my favourite part was the "The problem was that they understood early on that any biological from Earth could only remain alert to 10 Earth radii." Sounds like something out of a pre-Space Age science fiction short story.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: twik on December 20, 2017, 03:15:11 PM
After watching Youtubes for years it has revealed to me that moon transit communications were accompished with CSM-009b, CSM-009c, and CSM-009d.  Apollo destinations sites on the moon were previously tagged with a Luna mission and with the Ranger Spacecraft missions, with one remaining in lunar orbit.  This joint Russia/US mission know as the Cold War was to bring an end to the visitors from the Moon and  the cold vacuum of space and also to their occupying locations on Earth, the deep sea and Antarctica.  The problem was that they understood early on that any biological from Earth could only remain alert to 10 Earth radii.  All animals and humans sent into space remained unconsious passed the 10 Earth Radii.  Biological conscience is severed passed this distance.  After the payloads were remotely dropped on the ETs, with  command modules, etc., the next stage of the Cold War officially had begun with a strike back.  Most of the footage was chopped from probes, CSMs, and Russian footage and created on sound stage.   4dlfi4

Did your University of Youtube sources explain why Earth organisms lost consciousness (I assume that they didn't just lose conscience and become sociopaths) at 10 Earth radii into space? It sounds like you believe there is some mystic connect with Earth that breaks at that distance?
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: nomuse on December 20, 2017, 09:25:26 PM
Makes me think of Vernor Vinge's "Deep" novels -- idea there was physics changes depending on your distance from the Galactic Core. Earth is in a zone where thoughts are slow and FTL doesn't work. Go into the unthinking depths and even that stops. But head rimwards? That's when things start getting odd.

Thinking as a writer, what defines this loss of consciousness? Do they sleep? Do they lose a sense of self? Do they cross that difficult-to-define transition between intelligence and instinct? Does this only act on "biologicals" and thus would an AI be immune? (It is strongly hinted that at least computing is possible because it would be very hard to pull off all this radio trickery without).

Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Abaddon on December 21, 2017, 01:59:17 PM
Anyone got a clue what that outburst was about?
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Obviousman on December 22, 2017, 04:20:41 PM
Anyone got a clue what that outburst was about?

By the absence of clarity in the post, I'd say it's about drugs and their effects on people.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Zakalwe on December 23, 2017, 06:32:40 AM
The cat strolled across the keyboard again?
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Glom on December 23, 2017, 04:16:36 PM
Hi folks. Long-term lurker here, first-time poster. :)

It seems to me that the 'moonbounce' claim betrays the childish misconception that the Apollo spacecraft were somehow fired straight at the moon during TLI. Even leaving aside the finer details of orbital mechanics, the average person in the street would surely understand that the spacecraft had to be aimed at the place where the moon was going to be three days after launch rather than its position at the time of TLI.
I've been playing Super Mario Odyssey. Straight up to the Moon is exactly how they get there. Also, the balloon sparkles.
Moonbounce simply wouldn't be reliable enough to produce the claimed effect consistently, with the correct time delay, over the course of many days. It needs ideal conditions to work, and the person with whom you are having the discussion needs to explain exactly how it would work. How, for example, would a conversation supposedly being held in the continental US be bounced to the moon and received in Australia, or Madrid?

Being in LEO would also require comms stations to be changed every 10-15 minutes, not the several hours they actually were (check the difference in the transcripts between Apollo 7 and 9 compared with the lunar missions).

Being in LEO would also stop them from taking images, or broadcasting live TV, of the entire Earth - just not possible.

This kind of handwaving is usually regarded as sufficient by hoax proponents, but unfortunately they need to explain it properly, not just drop the mic and think they're done.
It's obvious what happened. NASA sent astronauts ahead of time to the Moon in secret to set up precisely aligned retroreflectors.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: inconceivable on December 25, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
10 Earth Radii is the Veil Of Mystery.   That is why biologicals will never get to the Moon or Mars.  When the Annunaki left they made sure humans were bound to Earth.   a84-4
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: LunarOrbit on December 25, 2017, 10:10:06 AM
10 Earth Radii is the Veil Of Mystery.   That is why biologicals will never get to the Moon or Mars.  When the Annunaki left they made sure humans were bound to Earth.   a84-4
You might need to change your name from "inconceivable" to "incoherent".

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Zakalwe on December 25, 2017, 02:56:28 PM
10 Earth Radii is the Veil Of Mystery.   That is why biologicals will never get to the Moon or Mars.  When the Annunaki left they made sure humans were bound to Earth.   a84-4


(http://in5d.com/images/tin-foil-hats.jpg)

Definitely a Centurion man.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: bknight on December 25, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
10 Earth Radii is the Veil Of Mystery.   That is why biologicals will never get to the Moon or Mars.  When the Annunaki left they made sure humans were bound to Earth.   a84-4

Not that it makes much difference as this post is only a little bit more coherent, but pray tell where did you get this? 
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: nomuse on December 29, 2017, 01:07:08 PM
I'm sure the Annunaki will be pleased by the results of their efforts when our self-replicating robot swarms reach their star.
Title: Re: MSFN
Post by: Geordie on December 29, 2017, 04:03:46 PM
After watching Youtubes for years it has revealed to me that moon transit communications were accompished [...]
(https://i.imgflip.com/eog27.jpg)

Revealed, eh?

You should write the Book of YouTube Revelations!